Red Hood

Huge announcement and something I don’t agree with at all. DC is now supplying all their books through the 2 biggest comic book retailers. This won’t go well for LCS

B5Erik

That's bullshit.

Does DC really gain by making that move? I know it will really hurt Diamond, but does DC really benefit from that?

An industry in trouble turning on itself is not a good idea.

Josh-da-man

...and boom goes the dynamite.

I guess DC really wanted that fucking Tuesday release day, didn't they?

I'm guessing this won't be the same type of disaster Hero's World was in the 90s (Marvel has a singular way of fucking things up), but I can't help but think something is afoot. Wonder if DC is thinking about pulling out of print altogether, and this is the first step.

Or, considering they've been putting out digital exclusive series like that new Swamp Thing book, and are canceling low-selling titles and burning off the unprinted issues via Comixology, it might actually be the THIRD step.

And, in the meantime, your friendly neighborhood LCS will have to deal with a second distributor, pay more in shipping charges, and probably get their volume discounts from Diamond lowered.

When Marvel pulled out the established distribution network in the mid-90s, they very nearly accidentally killed the whole industry. Maybe DC is intentionally trying to kill the industry.

Red Hood

This is an AT&T move. Same thing happened to many of Time Warner's brands when AOL took over. They assign bean counters to make decisions and this is the bullshit we get. I doubt we'll see print being eliminated but for certain the amount of books out there is going to be reduced.

There's already a backlash in the LCS community about this with more retailers than expected vowing to cut DC completely in response to this move. Again, there's a huge conflict of interest with Midtown and DCBS being the exclusive distributors for DC. This stupid decision simply moved the monopoly from one place to another. I don't see how this improves the overall state of the business or how AT&T thinks is going to expand their product to more readers.

fujishig

So many people defended this as a temporary solution, saying LCS's like Hibbs were paranoid about going through their competitors temporarily. But this is a bomb drop.

PhantomStranger

I think DC had been contemplating this move before the pandemic and it only accelerated the process. Diamond's monopoly over comic book distribution was choking the industry's potential. I agree AT&T is the primary mover here.

The main issue is that DC's new chosen distributors happen to be two of Diamond's biggest clients, as revealed in the accidental leak last year of Diamond's accounts. Will Diamond refuse their orders? No one wants to help a competitor's business.

The Valeyard

The timing is all wrong for this type of move after a global pandemic and continued looting across America. Retailers were just starting to crawl out of the hole. 100% an AT&T decision. There has been a hard focus on DC since they took over. Questioning the costs of conventions ("We already have a Warner Bros booth at SDCC. Why do we need a separate one for DC?" Last SDCC, DC was tucked BEHIND the Warner Bros. booth. BEHIND!). Questioning the need for monthly comics (Answer: "To create a constant stream of new ideas for Movies and Television." Counter Response: "DC already has 80 years of stories to pull from. Do we really need more?" Counter Answer: ".........."). Questioning the overhead needed to create those monthly books ("The Burbank DC office is prime real estate to waste on a product that barely breaks even.").

cultshock

One more nail in the coffin for the industry, nice going DC. I feel really bad for all the store owners that now have to deal with this on top of all their other recent struggles. Fuck, how many stores will even be left after all this?

Josh-da-man

I wonder if Midtown and DCBS realize that they're the Judas Goats DC/Warners/AT&T are using to lead the Direct Market to slaughter.

It's weird to read the reactions to this move. People are cheering because they think the Diamond monopoly has been broken. (It hasn't. Now retailers have two monopolies to deal with.) Or claiming that readers don't care which distributor their DC Comics come from, so retailers shouldn't either. (This move will saddle the shops with increased costs and more work to get the same stuff they were getting before. Never mind that they've spent the past two months with their doors closed, and are already facing an uncertain economy.) And they're hoping Diamond goes belly-up. (Such an event would leave every publisher, except DC, holding an empty bag. Diamond will end up folding while they're owed money that won't get paid back. Publishers' revenue stream will be cut off, and they'll be left in debt on top of that.)

Fuck DC/Warners/AT&T for pulling this shit NOW, of all times. Just as everyone (Diamond, publishers, retailers, readers) are getting back on their feet, they just had the goddamned rug pulled out from under them by DC.

brayzie

I haven’t bought comics in the longest time. One of the local comic shops I used to frequent is ran by a stand up guy, at least as far as his business goes. Gave discounts automatically to all his regulars, friendly, and ran a clean shop.

Hopefully he’s doing okay and his business will make it. Because of the recent threads here and finding out that some of my favorite artists are still putting out high profile work, I’m going to see if I can get a bunch of back issues on all that I’ve missed out on from his store.

The comic shop business has been on shaky ground for a while and it seems like it’s based mostly on older hobbyists and not the casual public. But this still seems dirty what DC is doing.

B5Erik

I used to run an independent record store back in the late 80's and early 90's.

We didn't have the volume of sales to qualify to buy directly from the record companies, so we got our CD's and cassettes through, "One Stops," independent distributors who bought from the record companies and acted as the middlemen to make it possible for small record stores to exist.

I checked about 5 years ago, all of the one stops we bought from are gone (Abbey Road, Pacific Coast, Norwalk). I have no idea how the small stores are getting their product now (and given the state of THAT industry, with sales of new CD's in the toilet for the last 5 or 6 years, I don't know how those stores stay in business).

This really reminds me of that situation. The funny thing is, by cutting out a major distributor like Diamond DC is cutting off one of their biggest avenues for sales of actual physical product. I can't see it helping them increase sales in any way, but I can see it reducing sales. Which is why I don't get it - unless they really are almost to their endgame (no more physical product).

I'm not interested in digital only. I like to hold my books in my hands, shift my position to get comfortable while reading. And I don't want to hold a tablet in my hands to do it. Hell, I've got probably 75% of the Marvel titles I want in book form (TBP, HC, Masterworks, Epic Collections, Omnibi), so I'm doing pretty well there - it's the DC stuff I'm just now trying to catch up on. If they stop printing comics and then the collections I stop buying their product (again, I'm not buying digital).

This really seems like kicking someone while they're down, too. There's business and then there's cut throat, ruthless, unethical business - and that's what this seems like. And at a time when the entire industry is in trouble it's just the wrong thing to do.

Josh-da-man

Giving this a bit more thought, there's one other possibility. DC might be setting up a new distribution system because they know that Diamond is on life support. This could all be happening now because they have insider knowledge that Diamond is in financial trouble, and likely won't survive the pandemic shutdown, and they're rushing to set up a system to take over when DCD gives up the ghost.

I remember years ago The Comics Journal reported that when DC signed its exclusivity agreement with Diamond (after Marvel started their self-distribution boondoggle), they had an option to buy Diamond. Though that seems to no longer be on the table, though: https://www.comicsbeat.com/steve-gep...o-buy-diamond/

Josh-da-man

I would wager that the music retail industry, like the comics industry, is a really small potatoes thing, a bunch of small mom and pop style shops that sell collectibles to a small and specific market.

All of the places I have been to in the last few years sell mostly new vinyl, and a mix of used records, cassettes, and CDs. I'd guess that 10-20% of their inventory is new vinyl (both new releases and catalog titles), with the rest taken up by used stock, again, mostly vinyl.

I often wonder how places survive selling used stock; you're generally going to end up with a bunch of crap that's in poor condition. I've gone through the bins at these stores, and it's mostly old junk from the 70s and 80s, with faded, stained, and scuffed jackets. I can't really see a lot of this stuff moving very fast. If you're stocking used, you're really at the mercy of what walks through the door. Most people selling are wanting to get rid of the crap they no longer listen to, or, if you're lucky, some desperate soul needing quick cash might walk in with a decent collection.

morriscroy

If something like this is indeed happening, what is the likelihood that Marvel is also willing to pulll the plug (temporarily) until Diamond goes belly up?

Red Hood

This is very unlikely to happen with AT&T running things now and how they want to reduce overhead specially now with the pandemic. I can see AT&T selling DC to another company before starting their own distribution.

Marvel is very comfortable with Diamond and their relationship. There's no reason to think that they will pull the plug from Diamond unless they stop getting payments. Also, they clearly see what everyone else in the comic book industry has, which is that DC just pulled one of the most stupid moves ever.

Disney is also very clear at what Marvel's role/job is, which is to provide stories for them to use on movies, TV shows, cartoons and children's books. Basically, Marvel is paid to be a creative thinktank for Disney. For some fucking reason, Warner and now AT&T don't get that DC Comic's role should be that. The fact that WB has been so stupid in handling their own subdivisions while Disney actually has embraced synergy within the company shows the contrasting styles between companies. To this day, I never understood why WB hasn't used all their synergy to put out a good product out there. Instead, we see internal battle like Cartoon Network sabotaging DC properties by eliminating shows that weren't comedy, thus eliminating Beware The Batman, Green Lantern, Young Justice and the DC shorts. The film side completely fumble DC properties, first with Green Lantern and then by giving their properties to Zach Snyder. It wasn't until they got Snyder out that the films starting becoming critical and box office success, like Wonder Woman, Shazam and Aquaman. DC has suffered because of corporate ineptitude, not because of their comic book product per se. It's ridiculous that they own 3 of the top 4 most famous comic book properties ever (Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman) and they still don't know what the hell to do with them

B5Erik

It was totally different in the 80's and 90's (and even into the early 2000's). The used product was a high profit item that supplemented the store's cash flow. It wasn't the basis for the business, but it was anywhere from 10% to 30% of the business in terms of cash flow, while providing 20% to 50% of the profit. And when you're selective about what you buy from the customers (only getting decent titles in good shape or better) you built up a customer base that looked at the used section first to see what bargains they could get.

There was a chain of used CD stores in San Diego, though, that was OUTSTANDING. They did have new CD's, but only about 5% of their inventory was new. The owner was a real hustler, and I mean that in the best possible sense - he hustled to find product to sell. He bought cut outs in bulk to distribute through all of his stores (and sold them as used), and the cut outs were usually pretty good titles, too. He'd go to swap meets, he'd answer ads from people selling full collections, and then he'd take that stuff and spread it out through all of his stores (8 or so) to make sure they ALL had equally good product to sell. The stores were a HUGE success. You found all sorts of great stuff every time in. It was hard to get out without buying at least 3 titles.

And then he got burned out. After about 8 or 10 years he got totally burned out, and sold the chain. The new ownership didn't do any of the things that he had done to make the stores great. They just relied on the customers bringing CD's in for their inventory. While the stores were still good, they weren't great, and people stopped making it a priority to stop there when going out to run errands (the way they used to). Sales dropped, the inventory slowly, but steadily, got worse (it never got bad, it just became ordinary), until the new owners had to start shutting down stores. One by one they went, even before the industry fully collapsed, until finally they were all gone.

The Valeyard

AT&T wouldn't sell DC. The IPs are still very valuable to them even if comic sales are in the tank. What AT&T would do is shut down in-house comic production and license out the characters to other companies (like IDW or Dark Horse). Maybe keep ONE editor on staff to manage things for DC but all production would come from the licensee.

I'm curious to see how much DC has invested in these two distributors. If they have any ownership stake in either company. As far as I've read, they're individually owned by Midtown and DCBS.

PhantomStranger

Interesting rumors floating around. The idea that monthly comics are a dwindling business from the AT&T perspective and their newly-installed DC boss. They want to cut the company's reliance on individual issues and move into other distribution outlets beyond the direct market. Expect the 100-page Giants line at Walmart to expand even further and move even more into graphic novels.

Another interesting nugget from former DC head Diane Nelson about the Diamond news - when she was running the show, DC wasn't sure if Diamond was solvent and believed they had serious financial issues. That puts this move into a new light.

stingermck

This is a good alternate take: https://bleedingcool.com/comics/dc-c...es-to-revolve/

Red Hood

I wouldn't be surprised if Geppi is financial dire. His comic book museum had to close due the high overhead cost and maintenance. Geppi had that museum so he could put his collection as part of the non-profit and avoid paying taxes. Then he gave almost his entire collection of classic books to the library of congress, a move many say Geppi did to avoid having to pay the enormous luxury taxes for these key books. He had to sell his share of the Orioles years ago and Geppi is famous for living a luxurious lifestyle that includes young women more than half his age. Also, he has his dipshit son Josh on his payroll bringing nothing to the business other than being a douche.

The big blow to Diamond happened in 2016, when their biggest account, Hastings Entertainment, went bankrupt. Diamond was like not even in the top 10 of debtors so they got pennies on the dollar after all was said and done, plus they lost over $10M per year in revenue from that account alone.

Josh-da-man

I had sort of forgotten about Geppi selling off his stake in the Orioles and closing his museum.

I do remember when Hastings went under and left with DCD with an enormous debt. It was a really big deal at the time when Hastings started carrying comic books, but, in the end, it didn't really do anybody any good. And, if you'd ever been in a Hastings store in the years before they went bankrupt, you wouldn't be surprised it happened. Huge stores, probably 10,000 square feet, filled with broken toys, a small selection of picked-over used CDs and DVDs, and yellowed paperbacks on half-empty shelves in their book section. They looked like run-down Goodwill or Salvation Army stores. After waking through one of their stores, you'd be insane to extend them any credit.

It's sad, because they used to be a great chain of record stores in the 80s. I remember walking into their mall stores and finding all kinds of obscure metal and punk albums. Then they went full on into "media," left the shopping malls, took over strip malls, and expanded into VHS rental and bookselling. At that point, the music selection began to decline, and most of their floorspace was dedicated to video rentals.

If you were to say that DC pulled away from Diamond because they saw the writing on the wall, I wouldn't be surprised. Really, nothing would surprise me at this point, though, between Diamond's solvency, and whatever AT&T is demanding.

VHS?

Few things I have heard/learned from this.

Books to LCS will cost them about $.11 more
Possibility this will eliminate several titles (either gone or strictly digital) and Marvel may follow.
Lets face it. WAY too many titles out there every week.
Rob Liefeld predicted this months ago and was called out on it. Guess he's the one laughing now.
Diamond solely put every LCS on hold (some permanently out of business) with their decision. Once DC announced they would drop them and use other means to get books to LCS, Diamond all of a sudden were back in business.
Diamond has been a monopoly far too long in this business. Having LCS sign contracts to only use them, otherwise contract would be terminated....bullshit.

Red Hood

Yes, most books are about $.11 cents more expensive and trades a little more. Shipping is more expensive as DC comes only from Lunar or UCS, adding extra packages to the weekly shipments

DC has already eliminated some titles from print and gone straight digital to finish some of the current series. Marvel has already followed suit with switching 4-5 titles to digital after printing the first 3-8 issues of the series.

I understand there are too many titles every week and agree that there should be some cuts. At the same time, these excess of books gives exposure to new creative talent and characters that otherwise wouldn't get a chance. It's a double edge sword as the market seems flooded but at the same time we are seeing new artists and writers break out.

Liefeld didn't predict anything out of the ordinary. WB didn't know what to do with DC before AT&T acquired them and now that the merger is complete, the new bosses are going to make cuts on things to please the stockholders. Same thing happened when Disney acquired Fox. Same thing happened back in 1999-2000 when AOL and Time-Warner merged. The problem has always been that the new bosses don't truly understand what they acquired. In this case, AT&T doesn't understand that they own cash cows in Batman/Superman/Wonder Woman.

I don't fault Diamond for the decision they made. The pandemic was rising at that point and still ain't over. They did what any responsible business would do and that was shut down and asses the situation. AT&T on the other hand kept doing business like if the world was alright. Their decision to ship books during the pandemic using Midtown and DCBS was met with heavy criticism of about 95% of retailers. Diamond reopened when the phase 1 of many places started to end.

I agree that Diamond's monopoly has hurt the business overall. I wrote about that countless of times here in the forum. Still, moving a monopoly from point A to point B, like DC just did doesnt help anyone. Basically, this decision has affected more stores than Diamond closing for a month. As you seen, retailers are paying more per book, losing the bulk discounts they had at Diamond, and now having the 2 biggest competitors being the sole distributors for the #2 product in the business.

Red Hood

DC will now distribute their collectibles division through Midtown, DCBS, Entertainment Earth and Sideshow Toys.

Red Hood

Didn't take long for DC, DCBS and Midtown to screw smaller LCS. The most anticipated book over the past 4 years has been The Three Jokers. This spawned from the big reveal in Justice League #50 (N52) and then the Rebirth special, with small teases here and there. In a move even artist Jason Fabok doesn't like at all, DC has made 7-8 covers per each issues of this mini-series. And this is where things not only get confusing, but they clearly benefit big LCS like Midtown and DCBS while fucking every small LCS in the ass.

So there are 3 issues in this mini-series. Each issue will have 7-8 covers, something that still is not 100% clear to retailers.




Each cover is drawn by Jason Fabok. The way it has been explained to retailers is that the 2 books on the left side of the chart here are the regular cover and the variant cover. Then, each issue will have 3 different premium variants. To get these variants, stores have to order a minimum of 50 copies of each cover. So cover A and B have no minimum, C,D & E have a 50 copies minimum of each cover and then there's cover F which is a 1:25 and cover G which is 1:100. That goes for every issues, which retails for $7 each. But that's not all. Stores that order 50 copies of each premium variant of each issue will get 1 variant at the end of the series. That variant turns to be basically a 1:450 one. So who benefits from this shit? Midtown and DCBS of course.

My LCS politely informed me that they won't be able to order any of the premium variants as is not financially feasible for them, which I understand completely. I already placed an order with another big retailer friend of mine who will get them, but not everyone I know has this luxury. Collectors many LCS will have to go to other stores like Midtown and DCBS to be able to get a complete set of these covers. This will certainly bring extra money (and new customers) to these bigger retailers while leaving the smaller ones high and dry.