chipmac

Thanks Spiky I totally forgot about the resale value of the old PJ in my equations. Any tips on where to sell it other than Ebay and CraigsList?

Sdallnct

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Are you planning a 2nd row of seating? For what I did and put blue painters tape where my screen would go and then use chairs with phone books to see how it would work. It helped determine my riser height as well. Tho I wish I had make it just a touch higher.

Yea...the HC4000 is on my short list. I'm pretty sure can make it work in my room. I believe the lens off set is less than my HD70. I have no need for 3D either. Until it becomes good with passive (cheap) glasses I have no interest in trying to have 10 pairs of those expensive glasses laying around.

Joe Schmoe

No, just one row. If I hung the PJ from the ceiling and tried to utilize the whole length of the room for throw distance, the PJ would go behind the seating because I wouldn't want the seats to be 19 feet away from the screen. I'd like them a few feet closer unless people's heads are going to partially block the light from the PJ.

Joe Schmoe

That's a good idea.

Sdallnct

Why so far back? And depending on zoom could be ok.

Spiky

Nope, I haven't done a lot of selling, actually.

Joe Schmoe

See, I just don't understand enough about projectors. I assumed in order to get the biggest possible image I had to put the projector as far back from the screen as possible. Does zooming it mean I can put it closer to the screen and still achieve the same size image? Does zooming it make it blurrier (like zooming in on DVD makes the picture ugly)?

Spiky

DVD zoom is digital, electronic. This is also the definition of crap.

Assuming a decent lens, optical zoom is far superior. Most PJs, maybe all, have zoom. As with any zoom lens, it would be better to not be at the far ends of the zoom for best pic quality. But for 90% of the range, the pic really should not change at all, maybe 100% depending on the quality. A common issue is the brightness goes down at maximum zoom.

Try the Projector Central calculator, it shows the zoom range for a certain screen size for a specific PJ. You can adjust the settings in the calculator to see what kind of location you can use. Try to keep it out of the last 5-10% of each end of the range when comparing distances.

Sdallnct

Probably the biggest issue is one of brightness. Most less expensive projectors have trouble that far away. But than you need to clarify what you mean by "biggest possible image". What exactly are you talking about? Most max out their image at about 120-121 inch measure diagonally. I'd say 100" is about the most common. That is a damn big screen considering just a few years ago a 50" plasma was really big and still considered a good size.

Don't forget you can also "help" with screen size with seating distance assuming you have a quality image. I use a 94" screen. But my front row is just 10.5 ft away. It "feels" like a bigger screen. My 2nd row is 12.5 ft away. Of course the closer you are the better image you need. My projector is right between the two rows about about 11.5 feet. And it has a really small zoom. I choose this as it is roughly in the middle of the zoom range for the size image I wanted. Plus it makes messing with the proctor (which you rarely have to do) easy since no seats in the say.

When I go to 1080p I might up to 102" or so. You can see in my image in my signature I'm constrained by the two doors on either size. But I have a couple inches to work with and can make the black boarder a little smaller.

But again, Anything around a 100" is really big (and good). 120" like many get is getting huge. Which again, can be good. But I think that is reaching the max of many of the inexpensive projectors we are talking about around here because of light level. Most good reviews on projectors will at least mention a projected max size.

Edit: Just as an example, the review on the pj I'm looking at mentions it can handle a 120" screen.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/mits...tor_review.htm

And note how they mention placement, lens offset and throw. Better reviews will mention this as every projector is different.

"The HC4000 is a 1080p DLP projector with a great picture, but not a lot of bells and whistles. It has a bright cinema mode--bright enough to use it on a 120" diagonal screen in a room with decent light control. The projector has a 1.5:1 zoom lens. But it lacks any form of lens shift and has a steep upward throw angle offset of 33%. For a 100" diagonal image, this means the bottom edge of the image will appear 16" above the centerline of the lens. This makes it a perfect choice for a ceiling mount, as it will not require the use of a drop tube in most circumstances. A low table mount between the seats would also be simple to set up. The zoom lens gives you some flexibility in throw distance, so it's a great option for folks with complicated ceilings; for example, I have a ceiling fan in my theater, 'conveniently' placed in the ideal spot for a projector (I still have to thank the builders for that one). Thanks to the HC4000's 1.5:1 zoom, I can place the projector in front of the fan and still get a 100" diagonal image."

Exactly...give yourself room to work with the zoom. Not only for quality which is a good enough reason, but also to give yourself wiggle room in case you are a little off on your measurements.

X

I'm looking at the JVCs.

There are new models such as the DLA-RS4800 and DLA-RS55 (http://pro.jvc.com/pro/attributes/PR...omparison.html) and somewhat older models, such as the DLA-X3 and DLA-X7. Then there are the DLA-RS series models. It's quite confusing.

The 4K DLA-RS55 looks really nice from the little bits of info I've been able to find, but it's pretty expensive. And then there's the Sony VPL-VW95...

Joe Schmoe

Man, there's a lot to consider.

Sdallnct

Meh...Projector set up is not plug and play like a TV. However, it is a one time event. Spend some time on research, than a weekend of set up and you are done. And have an awesome set up for you to enjoy.

But, surely you have some idea of what you want. Number of rows or number or seats. Surely there is some limit on size of screen or exactly where to mount your projector? Or maybe you are limited on where you put your seating? Or where power is for the projector. One you have decided on one or two of the variables either by force or preference, the others will start to fall in place.

For example, if you use my room as a test, a little thought and things fell into place quickly. The screen had to go on one of the two short walls as one long wall was all windows and the other built in book shelves I wanted to use. If I put the screen opposite the doors than the two doors would have limited the number of seats. So the screen pretty much had to go between the two doors. Once that was decided I figured the size I could put there and measured that I had room for two rows of seating. Then determined what 2-3 projectors were in my budget. Then which one had the zoom and offset that would work...and the rest is history.

Spiky

Yeah, it isn't quite the same as buying a LCD and throwing it on a table.

But there is one more thing to consider:
100.
Inch.
Screen.

Any more questions, just ask.

Joe Schmoe

Well, I know which wall to put the screen on. I just don't know if the pj should/must go all the way against the back wall or maybe more toward the middle of the ceiling. I suppose putting it against the back wall means I could run the cables up the wall (or if I'm really industrious, try to hide them in the wall... but I'm no carpenter). Hiding the cables if it's ceiling mounted would be a bigger challenge because the second story of my house is on top of the room where I want the pj.

As far as seats go, just one row will do. I don't want them against the back wall as I think 19' would be too far away from the screen... unless sitting any closer than that would make the screen look fuzzy or pixelated.

As far as screen size goes, bigger is always better. If I can fit a 120" screen and it looks sharp and bright, that would be great. But I guess if the pj doesn't output enough lumens, then I could end up with a washed out image from the pj being too far away. I do most of my viewing at night, and there are black out curtains on the windows, so at least ambient light won't really be an issue. Most likely I'll stay away from the $1,500 and under projectors and go for something around $3K. They all seem to have much better contrast ratios, light output and lens shift. The Panasonic AE7000U is on sale through 2/7/12 for $2,600 at projectorpeople and visualapex. Very tempting.

Sdallnct

Well there you! You have already figured out a bunch of it!! 120" screen will be good. You shouldn't have to worry to much unless you try to go much bigger (but I would think ceiling height would begin to be a factor). And that is a good PJ, so again, you are likely set there or least that type of PJ.

I wouldn't put the pj that far back. And without looking, not sure it would would that far. 1st thing I'd try is to see if you can run cords in the between the ceiling and upper floor. Might be pretty easy as there likely won't be insulation in there. Of course, might not work at all if the joists are not running the right direction.

How high is the ceiling? And do you plan on painting it? Drywall is not that hard to work with. Assuming you put the ceiling in the middle somewhere, taking down and putting up a couple sheets of drywall wouldn't be that hard. Or hire a handy man to do it. And if your painting the entire ceiling anyway...well...

Or you can get some of that track stuff. Tho that stuff is sometimes expensive. But it is paintable. But if your spending $3,000 just on projector, I'd seriously consider just taking redoing the drywall on the ceiling. Even hiring a drywall guy, I wouldn't image they would charge even $500. Than you can run the wires yourself. Or heck get an electrician to do it and add an electrical plug in the ceiling. Again it would be an electrical minimum charge, probably $250 or so....

You can do this all yourself. I didn't know anything either. Running the wires, how to mount, anything. The guys here were really helpful. And doing a little Google search and such....I ended up building my own screen, my own mount, running all my wires (the only cop out I did was just use an industrial extension cord instead of installing a plug - but that was lazy, I looked up how and wouldn't have been that difficult).

GreenMonkey

All this talk makes me miss my projector - I used to chime in on these threads - like kvr I had an Infocus X1 to start. I went to an Optoma HD72 after that. Miss my projector.

I had to move to a rental home though and hanging the screen and projector wasn't practical in the finished basement in the new house.

I switched to a 50" Panny plasma early in 2011 after the move...the blacks are nicer than my old HD72, and I don't have to worry about ambient light nearly as much...but I miss my 105".

I was a DLP guy. At my old house, it was easy to put the projector up high - we had an arched ceiling - and get the picture just right.

As far as mounting it - The biggest thing with putting it on a stand on the floor (I did that with my X1) was that if someone bumps the stand or something you have to re-adjust the projector - I spent a lot of time fiddling with it. Plus people inevitably put drinks or other stuff on the stand - I was always worried something would get spilled on it.

kvrdave

If you are worried about lumens, look at the LG Spiky and I just bought. Never seen a projector this bright.

Also, to compare, I have complete light control, and the Panny 900 was plenty bright at only 1300 lumens. That is with a 122" screen and the pj mounted about 13' back. The AE7000 does have more lumens than the 900 did, so it ought to be plenty impressive.

kvrdave

I remember getting into it because the cost of plasmas at the time was so freaking expensive, but that is what I was looking at. I couldn't imagine going with 40" though, and for about half the price I had the X1. Nice, heavy screen door effect and all. It's amazing how much better they have gotten. But I remember those old threads.

clckworang

You should do what I've finally done. I started a donation jar. It was even my friends' suggestion! They said they wanted their own glasses and would be willing to contribute to them. As the jar fills up, I'll take it to Coinstar in exchange for an Amazon gift card and order as needed.

As others have said, using the zoom shouldn't affect the picture quality. Just remember that you're have to adjust the focus after adjusting the zoom.

And I know that this is sort of bringing up an old topic, but I believe my inexpensive, under $1,000 Optoma projector has some type of lens shift. That's the ability to just move the image over, right, either vertically or horizontally? If so, then yes, mine does have that ability, and it's quite handy.

Ugh. I'm always fiddling with mine. Each time I put it up, it feels like a new experience. Since I only use my projector outside, I take it down after each use. It's way too humid where I live to leave it up all the time. But because of always taking it down and I'm sure just the outside conditions, I'm always fiddling with it trying to get it *just* right. The latest issue I'm having is that the image looks slightly crooked. I have a mount similar to that spider-looking one that was posted earlier. I think I need to adjust one of those arms. It must have gotten moved or something. I need figure out how to get it straightened out again.

Sdallnct

Its unlikely your Optoma has lens shift. I know of no inexpensive DLP that have lens shift. I don't know exactly why. Must have something to do with the chip. Many a low cost LCD do, but none of the DLP's do (least none of the true, highly rated, inexpensive HT one's).

You do have keystone adjustment. Which can help, but at the expense of resolution. Tho there is often fighting at HT boards about how much. Many say if you just need to "touch" of keystone adjustment, do it. The resolution loss would be unnoticable. But if you really have to do a lot of adjustment, move the entire projector.

Sdallnct

Ha! That is exactly why I got an X1 as well! Back then even a 40" plasma was well over $3,000!! So I was looking at rear projection DLP sets. And I liked them. But a 50" model was still close to $2,000 AND what really bothered me was it sat on the floor and took up about 2 feet X 5 feet of space.

X1 for about $750 + homemade 94" screen for about $150 and had a really nice set up for less than a grand!!

clckworang

Moving the mount wouldn't be that simple. I really don't have much margin for error, and the screen cannot be moved because it's a permanent structure cemented into the ground. The adjustments I need to make are relatively minor ones. My friends never seem to notice. It's things like moving the whole picture onto the screen rather than having a little bit of it showing on the wooden frame or moving it further down. It's minor stuff, and I think much of it has to do with the slight differences in how it gets put up.

And I'm finding the lens shift thing really weird. The reviews I've read about my projector back up what you say (that I don't have it), but if I don't have it, what is it exactly?

When I go into the menu on my projector and select the display submenu, there are three selections I have to really alter the placement or nature of the picture. Yes, keystone is one, and I'm not wild about the way it adjusts the picture; plus, it doesn't typically solve any of my issues. Like I said, I think the crooked thing is more of a result of the mount getting adjusted.

Anyway, I'm getting distracted. It also has two other options. One of them says H image shift, and it allowed me to physically move the picture over to the right or left on my screen. The other says V image shift, and it allowed me to move it up and down. Granted, it doesn't allow me to move it a whole lot, but it does allow me to physically move the picture higher or lower, right or left, and without a loss in quality or distortion like with the keystone. It's enough that if you are just a little off center, you can make the necessary adjustments. It's quite useful and beats trying to adjust the mount, which I would do before I stumbled onto this image shift option in the menu. I take it this is something different than lens shift?

Sdallnct

Its a digital image shift. Just like keystone adjustment...it works, but at the expense of quality. But if it works for you, that is what counts.

Lens shift is true optical shift. The lens itself moves. This, no loss of quality.

clckworang

I get it now. Maybe because I've never had to adjust it too much, but I've never noticed a loss in quality using it, unlike the keystone.

Spiky

A digital shift should not actually damage the pic. That should simply be moving the pic if it does not line up with the pixels. Of course, it could damage the pic if poorly designed. Or, this process actually cuts off pixels on one side as you move the pic, so I guess you could call that damage, but not the same way. Secrets magazine used to maintain their DVDp shootout, and alignment to the original pic was one of the items tested for each player, they would be listed as cutting off so many pixels on all 4 sides. Similar issue, a source component could send the pic shifted to one side, and the PJ could correct it. Analog TV signals, for example, have many extra lines that are data lines, not meant to be viewed. If the tuner and TV don't line up the visible portion of the signal exactly to the digital grid of pixels, you can have messy lines on one side and you would want to shift them over to get rid of them.

Keystone changes the shape, that is a different process.