Dimension X

From the initial post in the "Avatars for all" thread:
I'd assume they'll let you top-hatted folks know what those "other perks" will be at some point.

fumanstan

Maybe a newer hat?!?

gcribbs

I think part of the issue is that no one should be banned or suspended for posting a real deal just because they happen to work for a company.

So some random guy who is a cashier at CVS can not post about a clearance they are having is frankly crazy.

This guy gets ZERO benefit from posting the deal. Yet he is subject to being banned?

And the fact that some other mods might have agreed with it is even crazier to me.

Had I been a Mod I would have unbanned the person and dared people to overrule me. I am still shocked that some of these things went on for as long as they did.

Crazy.

I am shocked that more people inside the administration did not revolt over what was obviously a crazy decision and undo it no matter what the ramifications.

A little common sense goes a long way.

Tarantino

To clarify, X didn't ban me for posting the deal, although he did lock it, delete it, and reprimand me through IM. X banned me for questioning his decision publicly (which I still think is crazy).

gcribbs

We should be able to question decisions made by Moderators and Admins. If they do something they should be able to defend that action publicly.

I guess I just hate things done in quiet. If I am a jerk and am getting banned for being a jerk then I am fine with the person banning me having to defend his action publicly to people on the forums if they question it.

I guess I just worry that things being quiet and hidden allow for too much issues in the end.

Trevor

Really?! I really have poor communication skills if you think that of me. I'm not trying to hold anyone down. I was merely making up one small example of how decisions should be thought through a bit and not made in knee jerk fashion.
Yes, as from day one of the tier being announced, "many more benefits are coming soon".

Perhaps I'm sounding petty, but I really don't care about premium or avatars or the like. My main point is that it's knee jerk management ignoring the real problems.

Dimension X

Same here, but suspensions and bans are still going to be done in secret.
Why can't they just strike through, or spoiler, or delete the offensive part of a post, and then leave a mod note explaining why that action was taken, instead of deleting entire posts?

Groucho

I haven't had to moderate any posts in Video Game Talk because the posters are so sweet there, but if I do, this is the approach I'll take. It seems to be SOP in other forums as well. Now, there will be cases where an entire post may need to be deleted, like if its only content is an offensive image.

I can't speak for other mods or admins, but if I'm doing something that is angering people, I'd prefer to hear about it in PM first. Just like there's no reason for me to argue with MY WIFE in public when we can settle it one-on-one at home, we don't have to air all of our dirty laundry here.

With the new policies in place, you'll also have the ear of at least one other mod or admin. But if for some reason that isn't giving you satisfaction, I don't personally have a problem with the discussion going public. I've also instituted a "recall" method where the user base can revoke my mod privileges. Bear in mind that this applies to Groucho only.

gcribbs

Personally my gut feeling is that you will be fine.

A little common sense will take you far I bet.

davidh777

Trevor has always been one of the strongest advocates for this site, and I believe his interests are in trying to make it survive and succeed, not in trying to make himself feel special.

VinVega

You're talking about Groucho's marriage I assume.

arminius

That's one of the things I have always hated, secret bannings and the like. You see that someone is gone and look through their posting history and you see nothing bad. I would rather be able to see what happened and the reasons for the actions. It would be a benefit to the forum and its members. The secrecy thing only benefits those with something to hide.

Trevor

Amen! All that secrecy has always been the worst thing about DVDTalk moderation. Deleting should be a last resort.

fumanstan

If only DVDTalk would adapt this for all moderators and administrators.

benedict

"anithrist", Trevor?

To clarify, certain posts from time to time may disappear from the sight of regular members as a result of mod/admin action. That does not necessarily mean that the posts were deleted. We have the facility to move posts (or even threads) to the moderator forum for discussion and this does happen regularly.

We can also move them to a moderator archive so that other mods can still view what we have moved without having the mod forum filled with oddments from elsewhere.

This may seem like a fine distinction but I think it is as relevant as the distinction between a BAN and a suspension.

Regarding "secret bannings", off the top of my head I think it is usually clear what has gone on if you look for it. If you can't find anything, there is a fair chance it is a returning banned member (RBM) who wasn't spotted at sign-up. Maybe you could PM me examples and I'll see what I can unearth...

dave-o

As long as there are admins (or one to be more precise) that seemingly have the ability to take out grudges on posters they don't like, this site will continue to hemorrhage users. The new procedures sound great in theory, as this would hopefully allow a second set of eyes to put a stop to what is clearly an inappropriate use of the mod/admin powers. And let's be honest, everyone here is human, and sometimes lets the heat of the moment get the better of them.

Here is the problem though. All of that sounds great in theory. But not one single mod or admin overruled the suspension of two long term members that dared question the 'authoritah!' of an admin. So we already can see a flaw with this plan. Hell, everyone here knows what went down with both long-term members, and yet people still seem to be afraid to come right out and address the actual problem. Especially with the supsension of the second user and how he received a rude and threatening email. To be fair, Benedict (and a couple others), sort of addressed the issue by alluding to it and admitting that it seemed like an overreaction. But the admin in question hasn't come forward and said anything, that I am aware of.

It's sad, because I am just now reading the stories of several long term members who have been banned over the years. Strangely enough they all sound very similar. They seemed to irk a certain admin and they dared to question decisions.

I really do hope that the actual problem is eventually addressed...

Psi

That is the elephant in the room. I hope X addresses the question, and talks about whether he will make any changes.

benedict

In the circumstances, while the current series of changes are underway, the moderating team considered that it would be more prudent and more productive to work to our strengths, thus some of us have been endeavouring to respond directly to the feedback while others are working hard behind the scenes.

In an earlier post I explained that we'd all be taking care to ensure that, going forwards, our messages and emails etc. were suitably respectful. It is a matter of some regret that some folk appear to be giving little or no credence to this undertaking. Less credence, it sometimes appears, than they are prepared to give to the tales of multiply warned &/or suspended &/or even BANNED members.

And it strikes me that there is an element of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" in play here which applies both in respect to what we have said about future interactions and to the other changes that we are putting in place.

My own observation of how people interact on the DVDTalk.com forums includes noting a tendency for particular groups either to pile in and make unfriendly posts towards a particular individual who is in the spotlight or to subject them to what amounts to death by a thousand cuts.

It may seem clichéd but... actions DO often speak louder than words: if people generally actually don't believe that there will be the respectful approach and that the SOP will not be adhered to, I am not sure why any one person coming in and posting an apology at this point would make much difference. Whatever was said could be attacked as insufficient, insincere or, and here's the irony, "too late".

The other elephant in the room that exercises my mind equally or more so is that we do face the continuing issue of people who really don't like to be constrained by community rules. This has been the case since before I was a moderator, has persisted throughout the time I have been on the team and, I am sorry to say, doubtless will continue when I'm gone. IBobi's sticky/locked post atop this forum was not composed in a vacuum.

So, as well as ensuring that we have sufficient volunteers to do the job and that they have the appropriate guidelines within in which to operate, we also need to have some confidence that the folk here are prepared to accept that we will from time to time encounter awkward members whose take on how things work differs considerably from "regular" ones. I really do hope that the sizeable majority of people reading this and posting here trust us to work towards finishing the job of putting things on a proper footing.

Music

Customers?


Let it go people, no need to persecute anyone.

Sean O'Hara

You really need someone on the mod/admin team who has some experience in PR and let them do your talking for you, because when people are up in arms about how things are being done and you come in here trying to paint yourself as a misunderstood victim, it makes people think you don't get it.

If people are giving credence to Tarantino's side of the story over X, that says a lot about how much faith the community has in X. Instead of whining about it, maybe you should consider that X is a liability to your team.

gcribbs

I do not disagree that with at least a few people you can not win. I do not think a majority feel that way either.

I do think that many are concerned that this is a change to try and get everything to blow over while in the end nothing will change long term.

I hope that this is not true.

My hope is that if another similar incident happens again that the Mods/Admins will take a more active role in the future if they see things happening behind the scenes they disagree with.

A lot of what happens the general members do not see so many of you will know before we would if this turns out to be window dressing.

If so please stand up and say no.

You are really our first line of defense to preserve this community. If you do not think things are going in a positive direction do not just let it happen silently.

fumanstan

I don't know if its just me that got the wrong impression from your post, but it sounds like you just shifted all the blame to the DVDTalk community for the following:

1) believing the word of other members and not the administration staff
2) that we will dislike any change DVDTalk makes, regardless
3) we're just grouping up and attacking a poor, innocent administrator doing his job
4) we won't believe an apology anyway
5) people are troublemakers no matter what rules are in place
6) we don't trust you

I hate to be a complainer, and I appreciate many of the responses so far and the new rules and moderators, but it's hard to trust the staff even with the changes when there's a refusal to admit fault with one of the staff and knowing that he can still be involved in handing down administrative decisions.

gcribbs

I think this is the biggest reason why many think in the end nothing will change.


I also think this is a huge issue going forward if another incident happens since all someone has to do is say a certain person treated me badly and people will likely believe them.

Pizza

I don't think it's ever too late to say an apology and to those that it matters will greatly appreciate it. If people don't except it then it's on them.

And you do have a vocal group here who don't want any constraints. Some seem to only come around to cause trouble, something I just don't understand but it's been like that for a long time and is firmly entrenched. You do have an issue here and my sympathy. With that, I believe most just want to see positive change and a sincere apology to those that deserve one is a great first step.

benedict

fumanstan I am very sorry that my post could have been interpreted in such an extremely prejudicial way.

It was not my intent and I think that it would be better for me to refrain from further contributions to this discussion as, even when I believe that I have chosen my words carefully, they are clearly still open to misunderstanding.