Toshiba speaks! New HD DVD Pricing & Marketing Strategy....
#51
Political Exile
I admit that the HD-A3 price drop to $130 or so, makes it tempting to use as a upconverting player that plays HD-DVDs, but it does seem a little too late. I'll have to see if Amazon will do another 3 free movies instantly deal with this price, then I'll consider getting an extra unit.
#53
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally Posted by kvrdave
When they are at my house and watch a movie on my 122" screen in HD, they are blown away. And then they are still completely happy going back to their homes, with their tvs, and watching standard DVDs. The more I watch the average people I know, the more I am convinced that this will forever be a niche market second to DVD.
I know the argument: HD is coming, 2/17/2009! For most, this is meaningless. It may require a new box from their cable or satellite company. I've had several friends and co-workers ask me about this. My answer sent them away relieved that they would not have to buy anything, or do anything to maintain the status quo.
#54
Senior Member
...benefits HD DVD brings to a consumer's current DVD
library by upconverting standard DVDs via the HDMI(TM) output to near high definition picture quality.
library by upconverting standard DVDs via the HDMI(TM) output to near high definition picture quality.
Also, it seems redundant to me. Most of our displays have decent scalers already and upconversion may not even make a difference.
Last edited by nmr1723; 01-14-08 at 12:26 PM. Reason: spelling
#55
DVD Talk God
Originally Posted by nmr1723
This is a nice little marketing strategy, but one that ultimately makes me worry about HD Media. Many people think they currently have HD players... when in fact they only have cheap "upconverting" players. I think the marketing and selling of these "upconverting" players are really hurting HDM...especially when they say "output to near high definition picture quality". It just seems to me that they are saying HD is great...but SD is almost just as good with "upconversion". I think most of us can contend that SD DVD is not even close to HD Media. Yes, some titles are mediocre...but the difference with most titles if pretty striking both PQ & AQ.
Also, it seems redundant to me. Most of our displays have decent scalers already and upconversion may not even make a difference.
Also, it seems redundant to me. Most of our displays have decent scalers already and upconversion may not even make a difference.
#56
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally Posted by kvrdave
While I also see this move as a bit of desperation, I think many of us are out of touch. With all the media coverage about BD getting Warner, and all the talking heads saying the war is over, of all the people I have talked to, nobody knows, and nobody cares.
When they are at my house and watch a movie on my 122" screen in HD, they are blown away. And then they are still completely happy going back to their homes, with their tvs, and watching standard DVDs. The more I watch the average people I know, the more I am convinced that this will forever be a niche market second to DVD.
But I hope that they continue to believe that it is worth the effort, because I want to pick up as many movies on either format as I can.
When they are at my house and watch a movie on my 122" screen in HD, they are blown away. And then they are still completely happy going back to their homes, with their tvs, and watching standard DVDs. The more I watch the average people I know, the more I am convinced that this will forever be a niche market second to DVD.
But I hope that they continue to believe that it is worth the effort, because I want to pick up as many movies on either format as I can.
Most people say "wow that looks awesome". And continue watching SD DVDs on their SDTVs. Or at best, SD DVDs on their sub-37" HDTVs at 10ft+ where even I am hard-pressed to care about the difference.
#57
DVD Talk God
I don't think the cost is a big deal. If we were currently using VHS and the prices for BD came out, people would flock to buy them. It is a cost compared to upgrade that is the problem. Most typical people will upgrade if there is no difference in cost (when they need a new player), but won't see the reason to pay more for either format over what they have, imo.
It is similar to the cost of really great speakers. When you get to the upper end stuff, you pay 5x the price for 2% better speakers. For most people it doesn't matter enough.
It is similar to the cost of really great speakers. When you get to the upper end stuff, you pay 5x the price for 2% better speakers. For most people it doesn't matter enough.
#59
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Originally Posted by GreenMonkey
Most people say "wow that looks awesome". And continue watching SD DVDs on their SDTVs. Or at best, SD DVDs on their sub-37" HDTVs at 10ft+ where even I am hard-pressed to care about the difference.
Similarly, for many people, even though they can see the difference in how good your HT looks, it isn't as high a priority for them as it is for you (or me ). Virtually every time we have guests over to watch a movie (and our house is by far the preferred movie viewing location in our neighborhood), we get "wow" comments, even from people who have been there a dozen or more times.
An entire generation or more of TV viewers never watched anything on screens larger than 25", and most did watch from distances of at least 10 ft. That didn't really impede their ability to enjoy what they watched.
But, with all that said, public perception is changing. Most of the people I know are upgrading to HDTVs (it started last year, but it's really starting to pick up steam this year), and the overwhelming size of choice is 42". So as 42" becomes the common denominator, more people will be able to see the difference in their homes, and (I believe) they will be thinking more about these new fangled high definition discs over the course of the next year or two.
#60
What's helping the HDTV buying, are the grandpas and grandmas being told their current televisions will be obsolete in 2009.
#61
DVD Talk Special Edition
Originally Posted by RoboDad
An entire generation or more of TV viewers never watched anything on screens larger than 25", and most did watch from distances of at least 10 ft. That didn't really impede their ability to enjoy what they watched.
Ruth and I sit about 8 1/2 feet away from the Television. Sometimes during some programs I'll scootch towards the lip of the sofa to watch certain sequences in movies... This would constitute a 6 1/2 foot distance.
#62
DVD Talk Hero
Originally Posted by RoboDad
But, with all that said, public perception is changing. Most of the people I know are upgrading to HDTVs (it started last year, but it's really starting to pick up steam this year), and the overwhelming size of choice is 42". So as 42" becomes the common denominator, more people will be able to see the difference in their homes, and (I believe) they will be thinking more about these new fangled high definition discs over the course of the next year or two.
More on topic, I *sigh* at Toshiba's efforts. But maybe they are trying to get paid off by Sony (as kvrdave pointed out above).
#63
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally Posted by RoboDad
I know you didn't mean it this way, but this does come across as somewhat elitist. Most people, when they see (and hear) a great commercial theater setup, generally say "wow that looks (and sounds) awesome". I know I do. But that doesn't mean that I want to buy a 35mm (or 4k digital) projector and a 100 ft screen, and build an auditorium large enough to handle it.
Similarly, for many people, even though they can see the difference in how good your HT looks, it isn't as high a priority for them as it is for you (or me ). Virtually every time we have guests over to watch a movie (and our house is by far the preferred movie viewing location in our neighborhood), we get "wow" comments, even from people who have been there a dozen or more times.
Similarly, for many people, even though they can see the difference in how good your HT looks, it isn't as high a priority for them as it is for you (or me ). Virtually every time we have guests over to watch a movie (and our house is by far the preferred movie viewing location in our neighborhood), we get "wow" comments, even from people who have been there a dozen or more times.
Toshiba is pricing their HD-DVD units against upscaling DVD players. About the last move left to them. Honestly the A3 at $125 is a great buy compared to other name-brand upscaling DVD players. Dunno if it will do them any good, though. Would have been a great move last quarter.
#64
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Originally Posted by BuckNaked2k
I know the argument: HD is coming, 2/17/2009! For most, this is meaningless. It may require a new box from their cable or satellite company. I've had several friends and co-workers ask me about this. My answer sent them away relieved that they would not have to buy anything, or do anything to maintain the status quo.
#65
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There will always be a large percentage of the population that consider watching a movie in the theater a unique experience. To them, no home theater will ever be good enough. No matter the quality, it's still a TV, not a theater.
They are the people that will always be happy with simple TV and audio setups. While they may say "wow" at your home theater, they go back to theirs and accept tiny displays and weak sound. When they really want to be "wowed" again they will visit their friends or go to the movies.
Given that, there will always be a market for theaters and less than home theater quality equipment and software.
They are the people that will always be happy with simple TV and audio setups. While they may say "wow" at your home theater, they go back to theirs and accept tiny displays and weak sound. When they really want to be "wowed" again they will visit their friends or go to the movies.
Given that, there will always be a market for theaters and less than home theater quality equipment and software.
#66
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Originally Posted by namja
It is changing ... but at what pace? The sales projection for 2008 indicates that the majority of TV sales will still be 32"/37" and smaller. And that's not counting the millions of TVs already in people's homes where almost all of them are less than 40".
More on topic, I *sigh* at Toshiba's efforts. But maybe they are trying to get paid off by Sony (as kvrdave pointed out above).
More on topic, I *sigh* at Toshiba's efforts. But maybe they are trying to get paid off by Sony (as kvrdave pointed out above).
Back on topic, I hesitate to respond to Toshiba's announcement, since I have already been unfairly branded once as an HD DVD basher. All I will say is that I am very disappointed. Either it is a fire sale (which seems somewhat likely, but not necessarily the most likely scenario), or they are showing that they have no interest in actually helping HDM move closer to the mainstream, but would rather force things back to a stalemate, thus killing both formats. As someone else said, it feels to me as if Toshiba is thinking "if we can't win, let's make sure no one does."
And, if they do accomplish the goal of restoring a stalemate (based on studio allegiances and sales figures) by the end of the year, then I'll just bail on both formats. It isn't worth my time and money to help these two fight their silly little war.
But for now, they have only made my allegiance more clear. I will not buy another HD DVD (or Toshiba) product of any kind.
#67
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Originally Posted by RoboDad
I think that those projections may be a bit misleading though. If I pick up an additional TV for the bedroom, since the prices on 32-37" sets are so good, I will be contributing to those numbers, but that doesn't mean that I don't also already own a larger, more "HD-worthy" set. My only point is that the sales figures for those smaller sets may not be indicative of primary HDTV purchases.
What I think is misleading is saying that the smaller sizes represent people that don't care about HD quality picture. In the case of the 30" range HD sets I believe a large portion of the recent sales are simply being installed in places that cannot accept anything bigger.
#68
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
What movie is that incredibly hilarious youtube video adapted from?
I'm actually someone who hasn't made the HD leap yet although the wife and I were leaning more towards the HD-DVD side of the fence. But I told her after I read about the WB announcement that we may have to go with Blu-Ray now.
I'm actually someone who hasn't made the HD leap yet although the wife and I were leaning more towards the HD-DVD side of the fence. But I told her after I read about the WB announcement that we may have to go with Blu-Ray now.
#69
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by Kal-El
What movie is that incredibly hilarious youtube video adapted from?
I'm actually someone who hasn't made the HD leap yet although the wife and I were leaning more towards the HD-DVD side of the fence. But I told her after I read about the WB announcement that we may have to go with Blu-Ray now.
I'm actually someone who hasn't made the HD leap yet although the wife and I were leaning more towards the HD-DVD side of the fence. But I told her after I read about the WB announcement that we may have to go with Blu-Ray now.
#70
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Originally Posted by cardaway
What I think is misleading is saying that the smaller sizes represent people that don't care about HD quality picture. In the case of the 30" range HD sets I believe a large portion of the recent sales are simply being installed in places that cannot accept anything bigger.
People buying 32-27" sets doesn't indicate that those people don't care about HD, or that they don't already own (or intend to purchase) a larger set for a location that can accommodate it.
The way I see it, looking back on TV set sizes of the past (from, say, 15-20 years ago), today's 32-37" sets are analogous to the old 19-21" CRT sets, and the 42" variety are going into places where people would have had a 30-34" CRT set (which was a very commonly owned size, even 5 years ago).
#72
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by RoboDad
And, if they do accomplish the goal of restoring a stalemate (based on studio allegiances and sales figures) by the end of the year, then I'll just bail on both formats. It isn't worth my time and money to help these two fight their silly little war.
I don't understand this logic at all. If there isn't a "winner" in this competition, you're going to give up on High Definition entirely and go back to DVD? Why? What do you gain by that? It makes no sense.
#73
The Digital Bits reports that their sources told them it appears Toshiba has gotten Universal and Paramount to delay any Blu-ray announcements until late March/early April. Perhaps Toshiba is using this period of time to sell as much of their inventory as they can. Universal couldn't produce BDs overnight as it does take time to work out all of the deals with the BDA, so this extra couple of months is no big deal.
#74
DVD Talk God
Originally Posted by Josh Z
What do you care whether HDM remains a niche or becomes mainstream? If the movies keep coming, what does it matter to you, personally?
I don't understand this logic at all. If there isn't a "winner" in this competition, you're going to give up on High Definition entirely and go back to DVD? Why? What do you gain by that? It makes no sense.
I don't understand this logic at all. If there isn't a "winner" in this competition, you're going to give up on High Definition entirely and go back to DVD? Why? What do you gain by that? It makes no sense.
Just like the laserdisc.
#75
Originally Posted by Josh Z
What do you care whether HDM remains a niche or becomes mainstream? If the movies keep coming, what does it matter to you, personally?
I don't understand this logic at all. If there isn't a "winner" in this competition, you're going to give up on High Definition entirely and go back to DVD? Why? What do you gain by that? It makes no sense.
I don't understand this logic at all. If there isn't a "winner" in this competition, you're going to give up on High Definition entirely and go back to DVD? Why? What do you gain by that? It makes no sense.
If it stays a niche format and player sales aren't as high due to that, would the studios be in a hurry to release all of their classic titles?