Star Wars
08-16-10, 10:56 PM
#151
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re: Star Wars
I didn't say it beat TPM, that one is still above Transformers 2, even not adjusted for inflation.
However, if you do adjust for inflation, Transformers 2 still did better than Attack of the Clones.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm
Or, since it opened on more screens and did more box office on its first weekend, it could mean that most of the target audience saw it that first weekend.
The point I'm making is that box-office performance is not an indicator of quality. Bad movies make money all the time, while excellent movies can bomb at the box office, or even sometimes go straight to video. All box office proves is that a lot of people went to see it.
However, if you do adjust for inflation, Transformers 2 still did better than Attack of the Clones.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm
Or, since it opened on more screens and did more box office on its first weekend, it could mean that most of the target audience saw it that first weekend.
The point I'm making is that box-office performance is not an indicator of quality. Bad movies make money all the time, while excellent movies can bomb at the box office, or even sometimes go straight to video. All box office proves is that a lot of people went to see it.
where as transformers 2 fell 69 percent its second weekend and only played till october. If the GENERAL movie going audiences felt the way the aintitcoolnews types try to make it appear, then there is no way in heck that Phantom menace would have played for 8 months without haveing a major drop off.
Not only that take a look at the star wars conventions that take place around the world you get just as many fans who line up and wait for the prequel actors as you do the classic trilogy actors.
I will say it again even though its obvious you dont want to accept it, The GENERAL movie going audiences walked away satisfied with the film. Yes it has its flaws( but so did the original movies) but it was still better than most of the summer pop corn movie trash being produced today.
Last edited by AmityBoatTours; 08-16-10 at 11:04 PM.
08-16-10, 11:49 PM
#153
DVD Talk Legend
re: Star Wars
My Big Fat Greek Wedding had even smaller drop offs week to week (when it wasn't actually posting gains). It also was in theaters for nearly a year. Does that mean it's a better film than TPM, or Inception, or nearly every film released since it?
Quality is a subjective matter, one that you can't "prove" with box office statistics.
08-16-10, 11:52 PM
#154
DVD Talk Legend
re: Star Wars
So you write off one minority (aintitcool users), while citing another minority as "proof" of the majority opinion? I got news for you: convention goers don't represent the "general population" anymore than internet site users do.
08-16-10, 11:55 PM
#155
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re: Star Wars
Where as the "Online aint it cool news types" try to have you think everyone has a dislike of them.
08-17-10, 12:14 AM
#156
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re: Star Wars
Even if that's true, and it's not the only possible explanation for TPM's slow drop off, it doesn't matter. It's still a crappy film.
My Big Fat Greek Wedding had even smaller drop offs week to week (when it wasn't actually posting gains). It also was in theaters for nearly a year. Does that mean it's a better film than TPM, or Inception, or nearly every film released since it?
Quality is a subjective matter, one that you can't "prove" with box office statistics.
My Big Fat Greek Wedding had even smaller drop offs week to week (when it wasn't actually posting gains). It also was in theaters for nearly a year. Does that mean it's a better film than TPM, or Inception, or nearly every film released since it?
Quality is a subjective matter, one that you can't "prove" with box office statistics.
There is no way a movie will play for almost a year straight in theatres if audiences think its crappy. I have worked in the theatre exhibition industry for over half of my life buddy(10 years of that time with the most famous theatre exhibition company in the world,), I cant tell you how many times i have seen a big movie pre booked for what was suppose to be a long engagement only to be yanked after the opening weekend and replaced with another film.
If people hate a film it goes away quickly(especially since the late 90s), it doesnt play for months and months and months to 50 to 90 % capacity
Not really quite sure what your example of Big Fat Greek wedding is trying to prove as a counter point since they are two entirely differnt types of films, with entirely different distribution models. greek wedding rolled out as very small release and gradually was introduced into more theatres eventually going wide by late summer 2002 as word of mouth for it spread.
Meanwhile starwars is something that had 20 plus years history behind it.
Again iam not saying that everyone thinks the phantom menace was perfect(everyone knows it suffers from some big flaws) but for the most part the general movie going audiences liked the film, even if though the disapointed annonymous online posters with names like jollydwarf, or Uwe B@lls would like you to believe otherwise.
And you can pretty much guarantee that a large portion of those people who like to claim the majority of the movie going public dislikes or downright hate the special editions or prequals own them in there personal library.
Last edited by AmityBoatTours; 08-17-10 at 12:34 AM.
08-17-10, 12:15 AM
#157
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
re: Star Wars
I know Lucas is a fan of Kurosawa so wonder what his opinion is about the upcoming Criterion Seven Samurai blu-ray release... you know the one where it's not cost prohabative to digitally restore a 1954 film to high definition?
08-17-10, 12:39 AM
#158
re: Star Wars
I think that scene is pretty cool and shouldn't have been cut. All that had to happen was for a screen-wipe to occur right after he activates the lightsaber to C3P0 in the desert. It adds to the mystery of who that person was and keeps the reveal of R2-lightsaber scene intact.
08-17-10, 08:56 AM
#159
DVD Talk Legend
re: Star Wars
Note that I'm not saying that those at Celebration V are the only people in the US that like the films. However, a convention, by design, attracts a niche audience, so all the convention goers can represent is themselves.
Where as the "Online aint it cool news types" try to have you think everyone has a dislike of them.
There is no way a movie will play for almost a year straight in theatres if audiences think its crappy.
A small, but dedicated, fanbase can extremely skew the box office stats for a film. The stats for TPM could just as easily be caused by a minority of people seeing the film dozens of times as it could've been by the public at large liking the film.
Not really quite sure what your example of Big Fat Greek wedding is trying to prove as a counter point since they are two entirely differnt types of films, with entirely different distribution models. greek wedding rolled out as very small release and gradually was introduced into more theatres eventually going wide by late summer 2002 as word of mouth for it spread.
Again, my point was that using box office stats for an argument about public opinion doesn't make sense. For any example you can give (overall box office, weekly drop offs, etc.), there's examples of other films of questionable quality that did better.
And ultimately, why does it matter what the "majority" think? The fact is that there's a "minority" of a fairly decent size that prefers the original, unaltered versions. Their opinion is just as valid as the "majority" opinion, and they number enough that fulfilling their desire can be profitable (hence the DVD double-dip with the unaltered 2nd disc). Other films with much smaller fan bases have had their original versions restored and presented side-by-side with newer alternate cuts on Blu-ray, so there's no reason Lucas can't do the same.
08-17-10, 09:28 AM
#160
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re: Star Wars
GL certainly could put the originals side-by-side with the SE versions, but everybody knows by now this is not his modus operandi. He does not follow what Scott, Spielberg, etc. have done with multi-version releases. He obviously believes (whether he is right or not can be debated) that profit is increased by releasing them separately.
I think he just might release the originals on BD at a later date. If he does, I would be shocked if it doesn't follow the DVD release pattern...namely, they will be packaged with the SE versions from the box. I doubt he'll market them all by themselves.
If he does this, he won't be able to get away with laserdisc masters this time. He'll have to one-up the DVDs. New HD transfers would have to be made. Does he want to bother with this? I don't know. That's what it comes down to.
I think he just might release the originals on BD at a later date. If he does, I would be shocked if it doesn't follow the DVD release pattern...namely, they will be packaged with the SE versions from the box. I doubt he'll market them all by themselves.
If he does this, he won't be able to get away with laserdisc masters this time. He'll have to one-up the DVDs. New HD transfers would have to be made. Does he want to bother with this? I don't know. That's what it comes down to.
08-17-10, 09:36 AM
#161
DVD Talk Hero
re: Star Wars
Yeah, the reaction was waaaay overdone. But I expect that from uber nerds.
Don't hold your breath:
Source
Lucas also clarified that the original trilogy movies will be included as they were shown theatrically in 1997 and released on DVD in 2004 - i.e., the original versions will not be included. "You have to go through and do a whole restoration on it, and you have to do that digitally," he said. "It's a very, very expensive process to do it. So when we did the transfer to digital, we only transferred really the upgraded version."
08-17-10, 10:30 AM
#162
DVD Talk Legend
re: Star Wars
I think that scene is pretty cool and shouldn't have been cut. All that had to happen was for a screen-wipe to occur right after he activates the lightsaber to C3P0 in the desert. It adds to the mystery of who that person was and keeps the reveal of R2-lightsaber scene intact.
This kinda ties into what I'd hoped to see for the Bluray and DVD releases: while restoring the originals, also do up every bit of deleted footage they can find and present seamless branching versions of the originals, and then non-canon, extended versions with stuff like this scene from ROTJ they showed, all the stuff with Luke and Biggs on Tattooine. Heck, I once heard there's enough alternate takes of A New Hope to create an entirely different movie. Now that's the kind of stuff that would get me to double dip.
As for the reaction of the audience in that clip, I'll cut them a little slack because it's Mark freaking Hamill introducing it, plus it's a scene we've heard about for so long but never saw anything from it. (I'm really surprised to hear from so many on this forum and others who've never heard of it. It was in the novelization and it usually comes up in any discussion about Star Wars deleted footage.)
08-17-10, 11:29 AM
#163
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re: Star Wars
Since a convention crowd doesn't count as a representative sample, all that the Celebration V crowd be used as an example of is that there's 75,000 people in the US that like the films. That's 0.03% of the population, so not "a lot" of people.
Note that I'm not saying that those at Celebration V are the only people in the US that like the films. However, a convention, by design, attracts a niche audience, so all the convention goers can represent is themselves.
Who has ever said that everyone hates the Special Editions? Do you have an example?
Yeah, and My Big Fat Greek Wedding had smaller drop offs, which makes it the better movie, by your logic.
Box Office stats are horrible at representing the opinion of the public at large. It's hard enough to estimate tickets sold based on total box office, that to try and extrapolate any consensus opinion of the quality of the film from them is a losers game.
A small, but dedicated, fanbase can extremely skew the box office stats for a film. The stats for TPM could just as easily be caused by a minority of people seeing the film dozens of times as it could've been by the public at large liking the film.
Which means it was a better film, since films that build their box office slowly, instead of front-loading it like Transformers 2, are obviously better, according to your logic.
Again, my point was that using box office stats for an argument about public opinion doesn't make sense. For any example you can give (overall box office, weekly drop offs, etc.), there's examples of other films of questionable quality that did better.
And ultimately, why does it matter what the "majority" think? The fact is that there's a "minority" of a fairly decent size that prefers the original, unaltered versions. Their opinion is just as valid as the "majority" opinion, and they number enough that fulfilling their desire can be profitable (hence the DVD double-dip with the unaltered 2nd disc). Other films with much smaller fan bases have had their original versions restored and presented side-by-side with newer alternate cuts on Blu-ray, so there's no reason Lucas can't do the same.
Note that I'm not saying that those at Celebration V are the only people in the US that like the films. However, a convention, by design, attracts a niche audience, so all the convention goers can represent is themselves.
Who has ever said that everyone hates the Special Editions? Do you have an example?
Yeah, and My Big Fat Greek Wedding had smaller drop offs, which makes it the better movie, by your logic.
Box Office stats are horrible at representing the opinion of the public at large. It's hard enough to estimate tickets sold based on total box office, that to try and extrapolate any consensus opinion of the quality of the film from them is a losers game.
A small, but dedicated, fanbase can extremely skew the box office stats for a film. The stats for TPM could just as easily be caused by a minority of people seeing the film dozens of times as it could've been by the public at large liking the film.
Which means it was a better film, since films that build their box office slowly, instead of front-loading it like Transformers 2, are obviously better, according to your logic.
Again, my point was that using box office stats for an argument about public opinion doesn't make sense. For any example you can give (overall box office, weekly drop offs, etc.), there's examples of other films of questionable quality that did better.
And ultimately, why does it matter what the "majority" think? The fact is that there's a "minority" of a fairly decent size that prefers the original, unaltered versions. Their opinion is just as valid as the "majority" opinion, and they number enough that fulfilling their desire can be profitable (hence the DVD double-dip with the unaltered 2nd disc). Other films with much smaller fan bases have had their original versions restored and presented side-by-side with newer alternate cuts on Blu-ray, so there's no reason Lucas can't do the same.
how about this dont respond to me anymore its obvious that you just cant wrap your mind around the fact that there are more people out there that like the film than dislike it. Iam done talking to you please do not respond to me again. And iam not going to just keep repeating myself over and over again, so you can keep trying twist around what iam saying.
If you honestly believe that movie that is hated by the majority of the general movie going public can play contiously 8 months in the theatre, then i dont know what to tell you.
The only way your argument works is if people just refused to buy the home video release to begin with.
If the general movie going audiences hated the phantom menace and special editions they wouldnt continue to buy them to begin with.
And I am pretty sure you will be buying them no matter what anyways yourself as well.
In anycase Iam done with responding to your posts so please dont respond to me again,
Last edited by AmityBoatTours; 08-17-10 at 11:38 AM.
08-17-10, 11:46 AM
#165
DVD Talk Hero
re: Star Wars
I have no idea what Jay G. and AmityBoatTours are arguing about, though.
08-17-10, 11:50 AM
#166
DVD Talk Limited Edition
re: Star Wars
I think he just might release the originals on BD at a later date. If he does, I would be shocked if it doesn't follow the DVD release pattern...namely, they will be packaged with the SE versions from the box. I doubt he'll market them all by themselves.
If he does this, he won't be able to get away with laserdisc masters this time. He'll have to one-up the DVDs. New HD transfers would have to be made. Does he want to bother with this? I don't know. That's what it comes down to.
If he does this, he won't be able to get away with laserdisc masters this time. He'll have to one-up the DVDs. New HD transfers would have to be made. Does he want to bother with this? I don't know. That's what it comes down to.
08-17-10, 11:55 AM
#167
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re: Star Wars
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2010/08/...uke-skywalker/
Here's video of Hamill in 2009 saying he doesn't recall filming the light saber scene.
There's a couple of links to other sites at the end of the article that speculate it could have been a stand-in. To me, it doesn't look like something filmed recently.
Here's video of Hamill in 2009 saying he doesn't recall filming the light saber scene.
There's a couple of links to other sites at the end of the article that speculate it could have been a stand-in. To me, it doesn't look like something filmed recently.
08-17-10, 12:47 PM
#168
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re: Star Wars
I hope that there are extended versions of the prequel trilogy as well and not just deleted scenes. I'm referring to the extended battle between QGJ and Maul on Tatooine, Dooku using two sabers in Clones, and maybe QGJ in ROTS. I know the first two were filmed but have no clue on the last. Either way, I'm there.
08-17-10, 01:34 PM
#169
DVD Talk Legend
re: Star Wars
If you honestly believe that movie that is hated by the majority of the general movie going public..
The only way your argument works is if people just refused to buy the home video release to begin with.
And I am pretty sure you will be buying them no matter what anyways yourself as well.
In anycase Iam done with responding to your posts so please dont respond to me again
08-17-10, 01:54 PM
#170
DVD Talk Legend
re: Star Wars
I remember reading how the duel between Anakin and Kenobi in RotS was going to be uncut because it had been or so years in the making and Lucas knew that's what people wanted to see. Low and behold the movie comes out and of course we don't get an uncut duel.
08-17-10, 02:07 PM
#171
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re: Star Wars
I didn't mind the RotS duel based on the fact that it was edited with the Yoda/Palps one but the AOTC one could use some tightening up. We had the small duel clip shown in the trailer and I have some merchandising which shows Dooku fighting Anakin with two sabers.
Oh man, I'm getting drawn back into a SW conversation. lol Anyways, heres hoping for some trimmed/deleted scenes put back into the Prequel trilogy. It seems most of the focus gets put on the original trilogy, and deservingly so, but I have mad love for the newer films as well, flaws and all.
Oh man, I'm getting drawn back into a SW conversation. lol Anyways, heres hoping for some trimmed/deleted scenes put back into the Prequel trilogy. It seems most of the focus gets put on the original trilogy, and deservingly so, but I have mad love for the newer films as well, flaws and all.
08-17-10, 02:23 PM
#172
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re: Star Wars
Personally, I couldn't possibly care any less about how successful any movie is if I enjoyed it. I've enjoyed 'flops' as well as huge 'Avatar'-sized box office hits. I don't feel the need to justify why I like or dislike something based on its popularity.
08-17-10, 02:33 PM
#173
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re: Star Wars
Some may consider this blasphemy, but to me it all comes down to the price of the boxset, not which cuts are included. They could include the original theatrical versions but if I can't get it for about $15 per film I'm not buying (until the price drops). If the set only includes newly revised versions, I'd still buy it if it averaged at most ~$15 per film.
In a way, I see Lucas' continued revision of the films as his way of making each new set a value added proposition. Why offer catalog releases when they can offer brand new special editions every time (and charge an arm and a leg in the process)?
Of course, him not offering the original cuts as part of some multi-version package is just him being a dick (and ensuring that he will always be able to release the films at least one more time for consumers to buy).
In a way, I see Lucas' continued revision of the films as his way of making each new set a value added proposition. Why offer catalog releases when they can offer brand new special editions every time (and charge an arm and a leg in the process)?
Of course, him not offering the original cuts as part of some multi-version package is just him being a dick (and ensuring that he will always be able to release the films at least one more time for consumers to buy).
08-17-10, 03:50 PM
#174
DVD Talk Legend
re: Star Wars
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2010/08/...uke-skywalker/
Here's video of Hamill in 2009 saying he doesn't recall filming the light saber scene.
There's a couple of links to other sites at the end of the article that speculate it could have been a stand-in. To me, it doesn't look like something filmed recently.
Here's video of Hamill in 2009 saying he doesn't recall filming the light saber scene.
There's a couple of links to other sites at the end of the article that speculate it could have been a stand-in. To me, it doesn't look like something filmed recently.
Carrie Fisher has admitted to being so coked out of her mind that she doesn't remember filming ROTJ. Maybe she shared with Mark that day?
08-17-10, 04:06 PM
#175
DVD Talk Godfather
re: Star Wars
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2010/08/...uke-skywalker/
Here's video of Hamill in 2009 saying he doesn't recall filming the light saber scene.
There's a couple of links to other sites at the end of the article that speculate it could have been a stand-in. To me, it doesn't look like something filmed recently.
Here's video of Hamill in 2009 saying he doesn't recall filming the light saber scene.
There's a couple of links to other sites at the end of the article that speculate it could have been a stand-in. To me, it doesn't look like something filmed recently.
