Avatar: The Way of Water (2022, D: Cameron) S: Worthington, Saldana
#576
DVD Talk Legend
re: Avatar: The Way of Water (2022, D: Cameron) S: Worthington, Saldana
I actually like Avatar. It's a good movie with great visuals.
But the excitement went away about a decade ago. People moved on.
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#577
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Avatar: The Way of Water (2022, D: Cameron) S: Worthington, Saldana
It's actually the opposite, it tends to make things look more like reality as the motion gets smoother and approaches reality (which has infinite framerate). This is why sports and news have been shot at 60hz for forever. It's also why video games aim for ever higher framerates, especially for VR applications, as we expect reality to have extremely smooth motion.
Unfortunately, for fictional works, making the image look closer to reality can mean "they look like they're on a movie set" instead of "they look like they're in a real castle". Something about the way 24fps blurs reality and motion makes us accept things as real; whether this is an inherent human reaction to lower framerates, or just a learned response from watching so much 24fps material, creating a feedback loop of 24fps looking more "movie like" because movies are shot on 24fps, because 24fps looks movie-like, because movies are shot on 24fps, etc., is more difficult to say.
Like, there's tons of content on Youtube shot at 60fps. Most video shot on smartphones is going to be 60fps, unless you're deliberately setting a different framerate or maxing the resolution and the phone can't support 60fps at 4K, for example.
Unfortunately, for fictional works, making the image look closer to reality can mean "they look like they're on a movie set" instead of "they look like they're in a real castle". Something about the way 24fps blurs reality and motion makes us accept things as real; whether this is an inherent human reaction to lower framerates, or just a learned response from watching so much 24fps material, creating a feedback loop of 24fps looking more "movie like" because movies are shot on 24fps, because 24fps looks movie-like, because movies are shot on 24fps, etc., is more difficult to say.
Like, there's tons of content on Youtube shot at 60fps. Most video shot on smartphones is going to be 60fps, unless you're deliberately setting a different framerate or maxing the resolution and the phone can't support 60fps at 4K, for example.
#578
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Avatar: The Way of Water (2022, D: Cameron) S: Worthington, Saldana
It's gonna be awesome. In that blurb that says it's going be re-released in theaters in September with remastered video/sound, I suspect that's going to be the Dolby Cinema version. Basically the 4K/Atmos re-release. If it's the extended cut that I have on Blu-ray with the Earth prologue then I will see it in theaters again. That's my favorite version of the film and I just watched it a few weeks ago and it still looked/sounded great upscaled in 4K.
Last edited by Why So Blu?; 04-27-22 at 06:01 PM.
#579
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Avatar: The Way of Water (2022, D: Cameron) S: Worthington, Saldana
I thought I spotted somewhere in an article posted in this thread that this was filmed at 48 fps (could be wrong, sometimes I read this thread late at night/early in the morning). Maybe it's a compromise to not look so soap opera-ish.
#580
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Avatar: The Way of Water (2022, D: Cameron) S: Worthington, Saldana
Definitely in for this and the re-release of the first. IMAX 3D maybe? (Dr Strange is playing in this formal for one showtime a day)
Can't wait for deep sea exploring, Cameron's specialty. Bet we're in for some cool creatures down there!
Can't wait for deep sea exploring, Cameron's specialty. Bet we're in for some cool creatures down there!
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Why So Blu? (04-27-22)
#581
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Avatar: The Way of Water (2022, D: Cameron) S: Worthington, Saldana
#582
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Avatar: The Way of Water (2022, D: Cameron) S: Worthington, Saldana
#583
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Avatar: The Way of Water (2022, D: Cameron) S: Worthington, Saldana
Nope, Gemini Man was shot at 120fps, although not every theater could show that framerate, and the UHD Blu-ray spec only goes up to 60fps, so on disc that's the max. Ang Lee's previous film Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk was shot the same way.
The Hobbit was shot at 48fps, but at the same shutter speed as 24fps, as a compromise to allow easy conversion back to 24fps, because otherwise you have to add in motion blur when reducing framerate so it doesn't look weird.
Cameron has said he's used HFR "sparingly" in the Avatar sequels, for scenes that merit it.
https://collider.com/avatar-sequels-...james-cameron/
The Hobbit was shot at 48fps, but at the same shutter speed as 24fps, as a compromise to allow easy conversion back to 24fps, because otherwise you have to add in motion blur when reducing framerate so it doesn't look weird.
Cameron has said he's used HFR "sparingly" in the Avatar sequels, for scenes that merit it.
https://collider.com/avatar-sequels-...james-cameron/
“I’ve seen some clips from Gemini Man. I haven't seen the picture yet because I'm down here in New Zealand. I'm interested to see it. I mean, I have a personal philosophy around high frame rate, which is that it is a specific solution to specific problems having to do with 3D. And when you get the strobing and the jutter of certain shots that pan or certain lateral movement across frame, it's distracting in 3D. And to me, it's just a solution for those shots. I don't think it's a format. That's just me personally. I know Ang doesn't see it that way. I don't think it's like the next 70 millimeter or the next big thing. I think it's a tool to be used to solve problems in 3D projection. And I'll be using it sparingly throughout the Avatar films, but they won't be in high frame rate. But I am curious to see what they came up with. Have you guys seen it? And you saw a high frame rate screening?"
Yes. Actually, underwater stuff in particular really stood out.
"Well, this is the thing. To me, the more mundane the subject, two people talking in the kitchen, the worse it works, because you feel like you're in a set of a kitchen with actors in makeup. That's how real it is, you know? But I think when you've got extraordinary subjects that are being shot for real, or even through CG, that hyper-reality actually works in your favor. So to me, it's a wand that you wave in certain moments and use when you need it. It's an authoring tool.”
Yes. Actually, underwater stuff in particular really stood out.
"Well, this is the thing. To me, the more mundane the subject, two people talking in the kitchen, the worse it works, because you feel like you're in a set of a kitchen with actors in makeup. That's how real it is, you know? But I think when you've got extraordinary subjects that are being shot for real, or even through CG, that hyper-reality actually works in your favor. So to me, it's a wand that you wave in certain moments and use when you need it. It's an authoring tool.”
#584
DVD Talk Reviewer & TOAT Winner
Re: Avatar: The Way of Water (2022, D: Cameron) S: Worthington, Saldana
Well, a good way to re-introduce home 3D (besides having content people want to see) would be to add high frame rate capability. The Hobbit movies and Gemini Man are among the only 3D Blu-Ray titles I don't have because they're in the wrong frame rate. Will probably see the new Avatar in a theater too in case it can't be seen properly at home. (Saw Gemini Man at the theater for that reason, but presentation was not great.)
#585
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Avatar: The Way of Water (2022, D: Cameron) S: Worthington, Saldana
I don’t even know where I’d go to see a 3D movie around here. I think the last one I saw in theaters was The Avengers (and that was only because it was the only one I could get a ticket for for a second viewing on opening weekend).
I can’t imagine I’d bother with seeing it in 3D.
I can’t imagine I’d bother with seeing it in 3D.
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Brian T (04-28-22)
#588
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Avatar: The Way of Water (2022, D: Cameron) S: Worthington, Saldana
I wonder if this will rejuvenate the desire for 3D home hardware? I've been down that road and don't care in the least... but movies like this might push the narrative again.
#589
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Avatar: The Way of Water (2022, D: Cameron) S: Worthington, Saldana
This is ridiculous considering how many sequels to movies we get that are not just a dozen years old but several decades. History shows us that time doesn't somehow kill excitement. Most people who liked Avatar in 2009 would be just as apt to see a sequel now as they were 12 years ago.
#590
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Avatar: The Way of Water (2022, D: Cameron) S: Worthington, Saldana
I certainly hope not. What a waste of time that was - until the TV can support it without glasses and at any angle, it's a non-starter for 99% of homes.
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IBJoel (04-28-22)
#591
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Avatar: The Way of Water (2022, D: Cameron) S: Worthington, Saldana
This is ridiculous considering how many sequels to movies we get that are not just a dozen years old but several decades. History shows us that time doesn't somehow kill excitement. Most people who liked Avatar in 2009 would be just as apt to see a sequel now as they were 12 years ago.
Also it sort of feels like in general circles Avatar has been talked about less over the years so I question how popular it still is in spite of how well it originally did.
#592
Banned by request
Re: Avatar: The Way of Water (2022, D: Cameron) S: Worthington, Saldana
Well this movie is what sparked the 3D resurgence, complete with TV companies putting it in the tech. Since we’re about to get hit with 5 years or so with 3D Avatar movies, expect TV models probably in 2023 to start adding 3D back into them.
I forgot where I read about it, but there was speculation the reason why 3D was dropped from TV’s in that it wasn’t a fully developed thing. Knowing that Avatar movies would be coming in the future, they are still working to create a much better 3D experience, and to reincorporate them in the future models. Not sure if I fully believe that one.
I forgot where I read about it, but there was speculation the reason why 3D was dropped from TV’s in that it wasn’t a fully developed thing. Knowing that Avatar movies would be coming in the future, they are still working to create a much better 3D experience, and to reincorporate them in the future models. Not sure if I fully believe that one.
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Alan Smithee (04-28-22)
#593
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Avatar: The Way of Water (2022, D: Cameron) S: Worthington, Saldana
This is ridiculous considering how many sequels to movies we get that are not just a dozen years old but several decades. History shows us that time doesn't somehow kill excitement. Most people who liked Avatar in 2009 would be just as apt to see a sequel now as they were 12 years ago.
True. I think one thing that makes it stand out in this instance though is that Cameron isn’t just doing one sequel. He has multiple in the pipeline and we don’t even know if the first sequel will catch on like the original film did or not.
Also it sort of feels like in general circles Avatar has been talked about less over the years so I question how popular it still is in spite of how well it originally did.
Also it sort of feels like in general circles Avatar has been talked about less over the years so I question how popular it still is in spite of how well it originally did.
#594
DVD Talk Hero
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Re: Avatar: The Way of Water (2022, D: Cameron) S: Worthington, Saldana
I am still holding out hope for a movie shot at 120fps 2D, and projected at 120fps 2D. This is what I want before I make sweeping arguments against HFR. Because... I want to believe.
![LOL](/images/smilies/lol.gif)
The Hobbit was shot at 48fps, but at the same shutter speed as 24fps, as a compromise to allow easy conversion back to 24fps, because otherwise you have to add in motion blur when reducing framerate so it doesn't look weird.
Cameron has said he's used HFR "sparingly" in the Avatar sequels, for scenes that merit it.
https://collider.com/avatar-sequels-...james-cameron/
https://collider.com/avatar-sequels-...james-cameron/
Maybe I need to re-read it to see what he's getting at... but I'm very curious how this is expected to play out in the real world on real projectors. I haven't yet read the piece on what Christie is doing in support of this, so maybe the answer is there.
#595
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Avatar: The Way of Water (2022, D: Cameron) S: Worthington, Saldana
Well this movie is what sparked the 3D resurgence, complete with TV companies putting it in the tech. Since we’re about to get hit with 5 years or so with 3D Avatar movies, expect TV models probably in 2023 to start adding 3D back into them.
I forgot where I read about it, but there was speculation the reason why 3D was dropped from TV’s in that it wasn’t a fully developed thing. Knowing that Avatar movies would be coming in the future, they are still working to create a much better 3D experience, and to reincorporate them in the future models. Not sure if I fully believe that one.
I forgot where I read about it, but there was speculation the reason why 3D was dropped from TV’s in that it wasn’t a fully developed thing. Knowing that Avatar movies would be coming in the future, they are still working to create a much better 3D experience, and to reincorporate them in the future models. Not sure if I fully believe that one.
As for the earlier 3D not being fully-developed as a reason it was dropped from sets, you'd never know it by me. Can't say I've ever seen a 3D presentation that was truly bad or "undeveloped", even early weird-o diorama-fests like CLASH OF THE TITANS. While the vast majority – especially conversions – were and still are mostly about depth into the screen, some of the pop-outs on the vintage features (THE BUBBLE, DYNASTY, SHOGUN WOMEN and others) are just jaw-dropping even if the films themselves aren't exactly classics.
With AVATAR 2, I think the fact that discussion (and even marketing) of the franchise has faded to almost nothing over the years is a good thing. The social media landscape was much different in 2009 and the first film made a shit-ton of money regardless of it. I think the new film will have no trouble generating major buzz starting next week; even if it might not rake in the box office revenues of its predecessor, I doubt it will be a complete flop, even on 3D screens.
3D as a home viewing experience – either via screens that admittedly are no longer in production or via physical media that is still being produced – has been with us now for, what, about sixteen years? I'd hardly call that a waste of time. I really don't think glasses-free 3D is a thing everybody's waiting for to jump back in. Mind you, if it turns out to be a thing that actually works I'll certainly give it a shot, preferably with a 'glasses-on' option built into the same sets, or at least the ability to watch existing 3D blu-rays in the new format. I was about to write that it had been an awfully long time since glasses-free screens were spoken of, but a quick google search reveals that they're very much still in development, in part with an eye toward the 3D NFT and digital signage markets. Never thought about those angles, since I consider NFTs to be kind of ridiculous in spite of their growing popularity, but I could see both generating interest alongside theatrical or home viewing.
Last edited by Brian T; 04-28-22 at 11:04 AM.
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#596
Banned by request
Re: Avatar: The Way of Water (2022, D: Cameron) S: Worthington, Saldana
Some CinemaCon news via Bill Hunt/thedigitalbits - “Landau additionally announced plans to re-release the original Avatar on Sept. 23 in theaters, with restored picture and sound.” I think we’ll see a physical #4K #UltraHD release of the original #AVATAR in Q4 too, ahead of the sequel’s 12/16 theatrical debut. Either that, or both films will arrive on 4K UHD together in early 2023.”
#597
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Avatar: The Way of Water (2022, D: Cameron) S: Worthington, Saldana
Some CinemaCon news via Bill Hunt/thedigitalbits - “Landau additionally announced plans to re-release the original Avatar on Sept. 23 in theaters, with restored picture and sound.” I think we’ll see a physical #4K #UltraHD release of the original #AVATAR in Q4 too, ahead of the sequel’s 12/16 theatrical debut. Either that, or both films will arrive on 4K UHD together in early 2023.”
Post #567 confirmed that.
#598
Re: Avatar: The Way of Water (2022, D: Cameron) S: Worthington, Saldana
Actually, I'm not crapping on Avatar at all. I'm just mocking the idea that a dozen years later people are still excited about a sequel. Very few people care.
I actually like Avatar. It's a good movie with great visuals.
But the excitement went away about a decade ago. People moved on.
I actually like Avatar. It's a good movie with great visuals.
But the excitement went away about a decade ago. People moved on.
![LOL](/images/smilies/lol.gif)
#599
Moderator
Re: Avatar: The Way of Water (2022, D: Cameron) S: Worthington, Saldana
I glanced at the thread title and between "Way of the Water" and "Saldana" my brain did "Avatar: Day of the Soldado." Is Denis Villeneuve directing?
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IBJoel (04-28-22)
#600
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Avatar: The Way of Water (2022, D: Cameron) S: Worthington, Saldana
I know of no one who is genuinely excited about this movie. The first one gets shit on all the time and has not maintained a good reputation.
I like the first one, but greenlighting 3 super expensive sequels more than a decade removed from the original was a huge risk, bordering on foolish.