JumpCutz

Exactly.

resinrats

So he's an editor. Ideas still didn't come from him.

whoopdido

True. He still fleshed out those ideas though. I sure couldn't do what he did.

hanshotfirst1138

It doesn't sound like what he's done has recieved anywhere near the venom of what Brian Herbert has done with his father's work on the Dune sequels.

Josh-da-man

Just wait until this summer when they announce The New Shadow by Christopher Tolkien and Kevin J. Anderson.

Jay G.

I hate Kevin J. Anderson so, so much.

And, because the Dune sequels were mentioned:


http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2003/10/15


As for Christoper Tolkien, saying that something shouldn't be filmed isn't the same as saying it's boring as hell. He was saying that no film could capture the grandeur and scope of the books, and part of that could be simply due to the writing. No film can really capture a narrative voice, nor can it get all the details of a book. Adaptations by necessity change aspects of the original books, and Christoper Tolkien may be too close to the material to fairly judge any such adaptation.

As for his creative output, he hasn't done anything wholely original on his own, as far as I can tell. He translated an Icelandic saga of King Heidrek the Wise, and has edited several other non-Tolkien books. However, aside from editing his father's work after he died, Christoper also provided feedback when J.R.R. was writing LOTR for 15 years, and drew the maps for the book, which made the books very personal to him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Tolkien#Career

It seems like since J.R.R. Tolkien's death, Christopher has dedicated his career to editing and arranging the materials for publication (J.R.R. Tolkien was apparently not very organized and stopped and restarted several projects, leaving many unfinished). If he had creative urges to create his own original works, he appears to have set them aside to work on his father's legacy.

Here's an article defending Christopher Tolkien's opinion of the films:
http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2013...g-of-his-work/

And here's an article about Simon Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien's son, and the difficulty of being a writer living under his grandfather's shadow:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandsty...tolkien-hobbit

fumanstan

I finally saw this today. I was never a big fan of the LOTR, only finding the scope and spectacle of the whole thing interesting with the actual movies only mildly entertaining, and often boring in stretches. The Hobbit was kind of similar to me, just with some lighter moments throughout. I wonder how many minutes of walking montages over mountain tops add up to in all these movies.

Maybe a bigger LOTR fan can explain, but it's always bothered me how there doesn't appear to be any consistency to Gandalf's powers in the movies. He can shatter a rock early against the trolls, and do some white light beam to blast a few dozen goblins in the cave, but in the end all he can do is light one pine cone on fire? He couldn't call on those eagles earlier to save on all that walking time? It felt similar to me in the LOTR trilogy, where he often shows up with powers when the story demands it, or they need a deus ex machina to come and save the day.

hanshotfirst1138

The Middle Earth High Council of Exposition will no doubt feature heavily in future installments .

fumanstan

I don't get it. Or see it that way.

Why So Blu?

That's actually a Peter Jackson quirk in that he's not a fan of wizard fights, so when he shows them - they're only in spurts. Also, Gandalf and the wizards are like angels and only act in spots, because they have to let the rest do their thing. They have to keep it at a minimum, because they only act as "guides."

RocShemp

^ In all fairness, the pine cone bit and Gandalf's inconsistent powers isn't so much a Peter Jackson quirk at is inherent in the source material.

Wizards were prohibited from using their powers beyond simple influence. Gandalf fudges the rules every so often but Saruman went out of his way to use his powers to challenge those of Sauron. That's how then Saruman strayed from the intended path of the Wizards and ended up a puppet of Sauron.

hanshotfirst1138

It was a joke, that's all.

Isn't Tolkien very vague about the limitations of the wizard powers in the books as well?

fumanstan

Interesting, thanks for the information. I got a hint of a wizard's role when Gandalf was explaining the different ones that exist in the world. Although that makes Gandalf's "interference" a bit more infuriating since he steps in quite often in the Hobbit and the subsequent LOTR movies.

Funny thing about wizard fights and Peter Jackson, since I thought the fight between him and Saruman was goofy.

Then I don't get it.

Mr. Cinema

I saw this over the weekend and didn't enjoy it too much. I loved the LOTR trilogy, but I didn't feel this offered anything as good as what was shown in the previous films. I guess it's due to the LOTR books being a much larger, more exciting adventure? This, to me, just felt lifeless and extremely boring. And I've read exactly zero pages of The Hobbit. Boring is boring whether it was in the book or not. The 140+ minutes felt like an eternity.

The highlights were, of course, Gandalf, Bilbo, the 10 minutes with Gollum, and....I guess that's it from my perspective. The characters overall just had no screen presence. Nothing close to what we had in LOTR.

The cave trolls and the Goblin King were awful. The latter, unfortunately, reminded me of Boss Nass from Phantom Menace. I don't know what to make of the random mountain monster battle royale. Was that in the book? I'll check out the next 2, but I don't think I'll revisit this journey anytime soon, if ever.

RocShemp

That's actually a character flaw of Gandalf the Grey. He was always too hasty (I believe Treebeard even mentions this about him in the books) and would always stick his nose where it wasn't wanted. He wasn't much for relaxing unless he was getting stoned - err - enjoying some Old Tobey with the Hobbits. However, once Saruman the White perverted his purpose and took on the name of Saruman of the Multi-Colored Robe (his robe would literally change colours as he'd walk) and Gandalf died due to his own hasty actions (it was Gandalf, not Gimli, who originally insisted on going through Moria), Gandalf was remade in a form that reflected Saruman as he should have been. hence, Gandalf the White.

I think it was intended to be goofy. The fight is nowhere in the book. As I recall, Jackson thought it'd be funny to basically two old geezers throwing each other across the room. I just rationalized it as some sort of telekinetic fight.

Jay G.

It's never made clear in the films, but it's explained in the books.

http://periannath.com/feature/why-do...to-mount-doom/
So they'll help people out of scrapes, if they feel like it, but they're not inclined to be the airline of Middle Earth.


There's a small passage in the book, although Bilbo and the Dwarves do not directly interact with them as in the movie.

http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Giants

fumanstan

He also seemed like a dick to me the way he got Bilbo involved. His resurrection is one of those things that "just happen" that bothers me too.

More reason for me to not think much of Peter Jackson, I guess.

Reading through this thread I think someone mentioned this as well. So in other words, a convenient plot device to get them out of a jam.

whoopdido

The eagles are actually pretty frustrating. Much is said about them not getting involved in the day to day things of Middle Earth and how they basically don't care about anything other than themselves. Yeah, they hate orcs and wargs and kill them from time to time but other than that they pretty much keep to themselves. However, they are EXTREMELY important to the characters involved in both the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings. The eagles save their asses like half a dozen times and yeah they pretty much just show up out of nowhere and save the day and then leave again. Really, if it weren't for the eagles, Frodo probably wouldn't have succeeded in destroying the ring. It's been explained to death why the eagles don't just drop the ring into Mount Doom and it's also been explained why they don't carry Bilbo and the dwarves all the way to the Lonely Mountain, but if it weren't for the eagles saving pretty much everybody involved in both books numerous times, they all would most likely have died AND Sauron would have taken over Middle Earth.

They're VERY important characters yet get glossed over completely. Between the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings about half a page total is devoted to them.

slop101

The Eagles represent America - duh!

bunkaroo

I watched this for the first time since seeing it in the theater and unfortunately it was not much better the second time around. It's not bad but it's just not close to LOTR. I blame it on the story being spread out like butter over too much bread.

fumanstan

I've now decided that this is how Batman gets back to Gotham City in Dark Knight Rises. It's funny how these are issues in comic book movies, but not with fantasy where the only explanation is - because fuck you, he's a wizard.

whoopdido

Obviously a giant eagle brought him back to Gotham and then immediately took off again and left.

mcnabb

I finally got to see 'The Hobbit' on BluRay, and I have to say it is ridiculous they are stretching this out to 3 movies, as they could have made one standalone movie and it would have sat nicely next to the LOTR trilogy. I loved the LOTR trilogy and the length wasn't a problem for me because there was so much to cover. This looks like a pure cash grab stretching it out to 3 movies, and I have no desire now to see the other 2 movies.

Why So Blu?

Yeah, they're extremely apathetic characters.

hanshotfirst1138

It looked like the prison was somewhere in the Middle East. If, for argument's sake, Gotham is near New York, how many miles and hours is that by plane, not withstanding that Wayne would have to gather up stuff and then stop off at the Batcave. To say nothing of acquire fuel, modes of transportation, and...Ah, you know what, forget it, my head is starting to hurt .

The High Council of Exposition are around to explain the plot . It was an attempt at humor, that's all.