Hokeyboy

Not for espionage. He was a soldier, not a spy. Which goes along with my point, they turned Black WIdow into a generic action hero instead of showcasing her investigative/espionage mastery. She should have been 007 on Exponentials.

diesteldorf

I'm planning to watch it in the theater as I am single, vaccinated, and haven't been since Uncut Gems and Little Women in late 2019. Looking forward to doing something I haven't done for 18+ months.
I know this is a prequal and she dies in Avengers Endgame, but I've never seen any of those films. I like super hero films, but have always gravitated toward the classics, like Superman, Batman, Spiderman, Wonder Woman.

When Covid hit, I had 4 movies that I really wanted to see: Mulan, Wonder Woman 1984, Black Widow, and Maverick.

I was underwhelmed by Mulan and Wonder Woman 84, but part of the fun will be going back to a theater.

Question: Obviously no one has seen this yet, but how necessary is it to watch any of the other films before going to Black Widow? I didn't really care for Justice League or Superman v Batman, but I thought Wonder Woman was enjoyable as a standalone film and I recommended the first one to people that wouldn't normally go to those type of movies.

Does anyone think Black Widow would be equally enjoyable as a standalone film, or enhanced by seeing Avengers and Avengers Endgame?

dex14

I would say to at least watch Avengers, The Winter Solder, Age of Ultron, Civil War. If only choosing one, I'd probably say to pick Civil War. Most of these are crafted in a standalone way, enhanced by having seen the others. The film takes place in between Civil War and Infinity War.

Inhumans99

Did anyone see the article on Deadline where Stephen Dorff trashes Black Widow? Not sure why he has an ax to grind over this film but he clearly wants to trash it. I love how he says he feels bad for Scar Jo, but somehow I think she (and Florence Pugh) will survive being in this film. I had to remind myself that I have watched or sampled a lot of stuff Dorff has starred in the past several years so it is not like the actor has been blacklisted and is not working in Hollywood and is angry about that, so I am a bit confused why he is so publicly willing to savage a film that is expected to have an 80-90 million weekend. I get that box office performance does not equal a good film but even the critics that are not positive on the film are not calling it a bad video game film. So odd.

Noonan

He's probably just salty they're rebooting Blade without him.

dex14

Stephen Dorff should be embarrassed for himself for most of his career. And I say that as someone who generally likes Stephen Dorff.

Jay G.

The quote is from an interview he gave The Independant, and it reads a bit passive-aggressive, like "no, honesty, I don't want to be those multi-million dollar blockbusters," as if he's been given the option.

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...-b1875322.html
I think Black Widow is only singled out because it's the current major blockbuster. If he had given this interview two years ago, he likely would've namechecked Avengers Endgame instead.

GoldenJCJ

I read the article and can kind of agree with Dorff’s opinion of Black Widow and, I assume he’s referring to, comic book movies in general but his whole holier-than-thou argument falls apart when you realize he co-starred in a comic book movie of his own. It can be argued it was the comic book movie that paved the way for all the ones that came after it.

Perkinsun Dzees

Note: This video is Rated R for foul language

RichC2

Yeah, I wish SNL was in season for a Jost response.

ddrknghtrtns

Why not wait and watch the flick before trashing on the dude? Come Monday, you all might be in agreement with his opinion.

maxfisher

Yeah, people should wait until they see the movie to trash the opinion of the guy who didn’t wait until he saw the movie to trash it.

RichC2

Why should we do the work if he didn't?

Jay G.

Even if Black Widow turns out to be a bad movie, Dorff's take is still bad. Note that he wasn't really railing on Black Widow specifically, but the type of movie it is. Again, he said "I don’t want to be in those movies." Movies, plural, referring to multiple movies, even though Black Widow is the only one he names.

The quote wasn't about whether Black Widow, specifically, is good or bad, but Stephen Dorff railing about blockbuster movies in general, instead claiming: "I'll find that kid director that’s gonna be the next Kubrick and I’ll act for him instead.” See, the reason that Stephen Dorff isn't in the big blockbusters is down to his choice, not because nobody has ever offered him a role in one for several decades. He's acting in all those bad low budget films because he's looking for the next Kubrick, not because they're the only roles offered to him. It's all ego stroking, and has nothing to do with Black Widow, it was just a convenient name to use because it's the current example in people's minds.

rocket1312

The more people get riled up about these actors/directors bashing comic book movies, the more I side with those actors/directors. I mean I get it, it's easy to poke holes in Dorff's rant, but at this point do we really need some YouTube show giving a 15 minute rebuttal to a Stephen Dorff interview? Especially one that starts off with the host referring to him as Stephen Dork?

​​​​​​Can we just accept that Hollywood has changed irrevocably with the advent of streaming and the monopoly that franchises have over the industry and that there's a lot of people in the industry who are frustrated with that? Is it unseemly to take shots at your peers in public? Sure. But why does the internet have to get so darn defensive about it?

RichC2

I don't mind if they bash Marvel movies, I get it, it is frustrating to see an industry go down that rabbit hole -- even if it's about the only thing keeping theaters afloat anymore. I'm kind of annoyed that the only things that sell anymore are these flashy $250m episodic franchises.

But saying you're embarrassed for a popular actor/actress is gonna get some push back, especially when your most seen roles were in a 23 year old Marvel adaptation and vape commercials.

There's YouTube/Podcast videos that talk about every single thing out there, so that isn't much of a surprise (720,000 hours of content get uploaded a day, so at least they were merciful with the length of it.)

GoldenJCJ

I don’t think Dorff was particularly graceful in his interview and he probably shouldn’t have called out Johansson like he did (because we all know if Dorff was offered a similar role he’d take it) but I tend to agree with his sentiment in general. I’ve posted several times over the years that as much as I’m guilty of contributing to the comic book craze, I tend to agree with the Scorseses of the world criticizing Hollywood for its one-track mind regarding those movies.

Personally, I wouldn’t mind seeing the comic book monopoly in Hollywood die sooner rather than later. For me, Endgame was the pinnacle of comic books movies. I’ve had very little interest in everything afterward. There’s a couple Disney + shows I haven’t bothered with and Black Widow feels like a rental, at best. There’s really nothing in the works (that I’m aware of) that excites me nearly as much as the last couple of Capt. America or Avengers movies.

For what it’s worth, I watched about the first 5 seconds of that rebuttal podcast. As soon as he called him “Stephen Dork” I turned it off. The amount of disposable, garbage entertainment people consume via podcasts and YouTube is truly amazing.

Runaway

In Germany most of the big movie theater chains are boycotting Black Widow, due to the changed circumstances (shorter window of exclusivity, while the licensing fees didn't change). Disney's licensing fees are especially high, so most chains are making a stand, which is a risky move since they are just opening up again. Some chains are still showing the movie, because they are owned by American or British companies. Germany isn't the biggest market but No. 3 in Europe and without boycott ~ $20.000.000 would have been realistic.

d2cheer

Not sure when True Detective Season 3 came out but I openly mocked his addition to it. Turns out he was the best part of it.


Next thing you know someone will uncover he is a Republican...that should seal his fate.

Josh-da-man

I think that Dorff is saying out loud what a lot of Hollywood is whispering among themselves.

Dorff's career started in the 90s when indie cinema was big and went mainstream, and he's probably looking back at those days nostalgically. And, yeah, those were some really cool times.

But shit changes. The audience for indie cinema just isn't there anymore. For better or worse, the art houses have gone away and the big multiplexes have taken over with 3D and Imax and surround sound, and audiences aren't going to theaters to see stuff like My Own Private Idaho or Pulp Fiction anymore. If they're taking a night out, they want spectacle -- either superheroes, or big loud science fiction adventure, or off-the-wall action like F9.

I really think that DVD and HDTV killed indie cinema more than anything. Sometime, around the early 00s, we stopped watching blurry VHS on 19" televisions, and now everyone has a crystal clear big screen in their homes that plays high quality video from discs or the internet. It does a really good job of replicating the theater experience in the home, so it would only seem natural that if people want to go out and see a movie, they're going to go see something that they can't get at home, which is spectacle on an IMAX screen.

Hollywood goes through cycles --Tarantino alluded to this in his Bill Maher interview. The 50s and early 60s were boring and conservative with the Hays Code in full effect. That gave way to the "New Hollywood" of the late 60s and 70s until those guys started getting too self-indulgent and began blowing budgets. The "New Hollywood" of the 70s, which created blockbusters like Jaws and Star Wars, defined the 80s and early 90s. When audiences got bored with those, around the time of Waterworld, that gave way to the indie boom of the 90s.

They cycle we're in now the superblockbuster superhero movies. Why? I think the reason is that superheroes have always been fun and big part of American pop culture, and the technology has only recently advanced to the point where all of the insane shit that can be drawn on pen and ink on a page can now be realistically brought to life on the big screen. And, on the business side, media consolidation now means that superheroes can be presented in their own interactive universes, which wouldn't have really been possible before until about fifteen years ago. (Well, Warners has owned DC for a long time, but they lacked the corporate will to pull off a cohesive DC "universe." Even now that Marvel and Disney have shown them a roadmap on how it can be done, they're still sitting around with their thumbs up their asses flinging shit at the wall.)

maxfisher

I get complaining about where Hollywood is focused, but I think one could make the case that indie films are thriving. It feels like it’s never been easier or cheaper to make movies and there are tons of good small-budget and micro-budget films getting released. Granted, you’re going to be watching most of them at home instead of the theater, but that’s a function of what can be profitable for theater owners.

clckworang

I generally agree. He's an actor who has squandered his talent his entire career.

The fact that he chose to call out Johansson of all people was ridiculous. Dorff is talking about how he is looking for the next Kubrick. Meanwhile, she is more likely to work with the next Kubrick. Of all the people in the Marvel cinematic universe to mention, he uses the one who has probably done the best job at pursuing both artistic endeavors and blockbusters. I wouldn't feel too sorry for her.

I think the same thing. I think the problem is too many people are nostalgic for the big-screen experience. But let's be honest here, that experience isn't what it used to be either. There are far more distractions. It keeps getting more expensive without any greater return on that investment. I do understand why people want to hang on to that, though.

stingermck

Dorf got people talking about him again after 20 years, so his plan worked.

IBJoel

I agree. I guess he's never heard of "one for them, one for me".

RichC2

His comments were kind of all over the place. He also dissed this years Academy Awards which were the most indie forward in recent memory.

Dude's just salty.