Jason

I picked Homecoming, although I hope Far From Home supplants it.

I saw Into the Spider-verse and while I enjoyed it, it didn't leave me wanting more. Beats the shit out of the Lego Batman movie, that's for sure.

B5Erik

1. Spider-Man 2
2. Spider-Man
3. Spider-Man Far From Home
4. Spider-Man Homecoming
5. Spider-Man 3
6. Amazing Spider-Man 2
7. Amazing Spider-Man
8. Into The Spider-Verse

tanman

What are you serious? You liked the unwatchable crappy Garfield Spider-Man movies more than Into the Spider-Verse?

B5Erik

I am serious.

I liked the concept of Spider-Verse (it is a clever story), but the portrayals of the two main characters was less than great. As I noted before, that WASN'T Peter. It didn't look like Peter, didn't sound like Peter, and didn't act like Peter. And Miles was just dull and uninteresting (and often bordering on unlikable). That killed the movie for me. It was OK, but I was really disappointed with it.

OldBoy

and Macy Gray in 1. where is she now?

OldBoy

i actually downloaded 2 of his albums. now a fan...

OldBoy

but, there were Peters in it

tanman

You must have watched a totally different movie or didn't get that that was entirely the point. None of the Spider-People are supposed to be like your traditional PP except the very first one that was killed. The entire movie was about exploring different iterations of PP and Spider-Man. They were from different dimensions, were you expecting them all to act and look like PP? And there was a very fascinating reason and resulting character arc for the has been PP. Let me guess, you didn't like fat Thor because he didn't look like he was supposed to.

Alright, how can you possibly defend the Garfield Spider-Man movies?

B5Erik

The fat Peter is supposed to be the Peter from, "Our," universe. (Our Spidey doesn't get killed.)

And that guy doesn't look, sound, or act like Peter Parker. At all.

And you totally disregarded what I said about Miles Morales - he's dull and uninteresting. And sometimes a little annoying. That's all on the writers.

I didn't dislike Spider-Verse, I just didn't love it. It was OK.


I didn't like Fat Thor because it would be WAY out of character (as written for the last 55+ years) to wallow in self-pity like that and let himself get fat. That's not who Thor is.


I don't need to.

Having said that, I don't love them any more than I do Spider-Verse. But I do like them. Somewhat. I was fairly critical of ASM1 when it came out, and slightly less critical of ASM2, but still critical, when it came out. They both have good moments and bad moments. They were horribly inconsistent, and they made some changes from the source material that were not for the better.


The Spider-Man movie that I find the most perplexing is Spider-Man 3. It has some REALLY good stuff in there. But when it goes bad, it goes REALLY bad. For my money, there's more good than bad about Spider-Man 3, but it could have, and should have, been better. It was a significant step down from Spider-Man 2 (the best Spidey movie to date).

tanman

Yeah and there's a major reason why. He's a failed PP/SM. He's bottom of the barrel and depressed because of his failure. If you don't think that's PP then you don't really know the character. The main thing that sets him apart from other any other comic book heroes is that he is relatable. He doesn't patrol Gotham, He doesn't come from Asgard, He isn't rich like Tony Stark; he's just your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man. So or course if he fails the love of his life he isn't going to be himself. Do you behave and look exactly the same all the time no matter what the situation or your age is? And that's the entire point of his character for the whole movie. He's given up until Miles has to force him to care. It's a very emotionally complex story. I'm sorry you didn't really get that.

Ok lets talk about Miles. Right off the bat I don't like concentrating on race but representation really does matter. Here we have a kid who is halfsies trying to fit in a new school he doesn't feel like he belongs. It sets up some beautiful family drama between himself and his dad. And himself and his uncle. The subtlety and the fact that they spend a good amount of time in family drama that everyone goes through in their early teens really grounds what is otherwise a downright assault on your eyes and senses. I know it might not be the most unique story but it's a coming of age story. Miles has to find himself in all this. Responsibility is thrust on him and he fails. His Spidey mentor also fails him. But he doesn't give up. He almost does, he pushes through his own self doubt with a lot of difficulty but he ultimately prevails. I think that's what I like the most about this movie; despite all the flashy visuals, the catchy soundtrack and the ridiculous cast of characters this is ultimate a coming of age story.


Again like fat Spider-Man that's exactly the point. It subverts expectations but not just for laughs or just to do it but it's an example of how far he really has fallen. Out of all the avengers he's the one that has lost the most. He lost his mother, father, brother, friend, home, planet and the one thing he is good at (killing bad guys and saving the world) he failed to do because of hubris.

The ASM movies are indefensible IMO. But the first one was better than the second one.

Michael Corvin

I'm with you tanman about Miles. I'll even say he's far more of an interesting character than Holland's MCU Parker/Spidey.

rennervision

Just curious - when people keep mentioning the Raimi films haven't aged well, what are they referring to exactly? Are we just talking about the Green Goblin mask and Macy Gray?

B5Erik

I read Spider-Man comics up through the 90's. He was NEVER anything like the Peter of Spider-Verse, even after Gwen died. Not even close.

"An emotionally complex story." More like, "An emotionally manipulative story making manufactured out of character changes to a main character."

Sorry, I found that part of the story to be insulting to the version of Peter that I've been reading about for 45+ years. It's NOT the same character. Go back and re-read the ASM issues right after Gwen died. Peter didn't give up. Peter didn't wallow in self-pity. He tried to make up for his failure to save Gwen by saving others.


"Representation really does matter." Yes and no. Representation is great and very important IF the character and his/her story is good. I found Miles and his story to be dull and uninteresting. I've seen that story before, only told better. I didn't like Miles. If I don't like the main character, and I find his story to be cookie cutter, what does that leave me as a viewer? Not much. An overall concept for the movie that was clever, but all the other details just didn't work for me. Sorry.

Why are you so offended that I find Spider-Verse to be WAY overrated?


You're buying in to what the writers and directors were selling. I didn't. I thought it was manufactured bullshit for shock value and cheap laughs. Thor - the REAL Thor from the comics - would NEVER react like that. He'd redouble his efforts to make up for his failures, not wallow in drunken self-pity.

Like I said, there are good and bad things about both of them. Neither of them should have been made with the scripts they used. I put them on about the same level I put Spider-Verse. Disappointing.

B5Erik

I don't get why some people say that. I just re-watched all three of the Raimi Spider-Man movies, and they all hold up really well (well, except for Emo Peter and some of the other failings of SM3, but that has nothing to do with aging poorly).

The first two Raimi movies are still the Gold Standard by which Spider-Man movies should be judged.

tanman

So you can't see in the entire multi-verse a world where PP doesn't do that and instead gives up? It's not out of character. People don't always act the same every single time even when faced with the same situation. It's quite fascinating and compelling to explore and see how it would be different if these super heroes aren't quite super all the time. Otherwise it becomes the same story every time. Plus IMHO it's great to explore this idea in a cartoon.

Fair enough. I'm not offended, just curious what your reasoning is to why you didn't like as much. I've never talked to anyone that didn't have but the highest praise for this movie. I see that you're more a purist and that's fine.

Again I see now how you're a purist. It wasn't (just) for cheap laughs. It was an interesting take on him and a great character arc for Thor. He's the strongest avenger (despite what the quinnjet said) and he's lost the most. It's interesting to see him fall so far in the face of his failure. And what exactly would he do to make up for his failure? He already did it by chopping Thanos's head off. He "went for the head". But it was a hollow victory. There was nothing else to do. So faced with no purpose in life he chose to wallow. But that wasn't the end of his story. When faced with a new hope and determination he did step up and pulled himself out of that. If you look just a little bit deeper you'll see that it wasn't just for shock value or cheap laughs.

I can't say a single good thing about ASM. It was poorly written, poorly acted. There was just no redeeming value of the ASM movies except that we got to have MCU Spidey because of them.

Michael Corvin

I don't quite get this one either. I watched all three recently myself with my kids. I'd say they've aged far better than most superhero flicks. I wouldn't even consider Macy Gray dated. Sure she's from that era, but it's not like it was the Macarena or Livin' LaVida Loca. At this point, she's just a singer in a parade in the flick.

And Green Goblin? That looked like shit in 2002. Worst design decision in the entire flick.

I guess the worst offender is probably Emo-Peter. Maybe some of the Venom stuff, but I don't carry the same disdain for SM3 that everyone else has.

Sonic

That scene was hilarious.

B5Erik

As you surmised, I'm a purist and a loser Peter Parker doesn't interest me in the least. And I find it WAY out of character for him to become Lebowski Peter.


Faced with no purpose in life? WTF are you talking about?? HALF the population of the universe still existed! There were still lots of situations that would require Thor to save the day. By wallowing in drunken, lazy self-pity he left people to die. That's NOT Thor. He would do his best to save as many of the remaining half as possible whenever he was needed (which would still be fairly often).

greensmoke

Looks like most people think the way I do on this. Definitely Spider-man 2. Dr. Octopus was awesome.

Mike86

Michael Corvin

Oh, I love it and think it's hilarious.. BUT I can freely admit that it is wildly out of place for 3, if not the entire trilogy.

OldBoy

yes, his arc i cared about the most and loved the end. but other than that it was a great movie and i haven't seen in a very long while, but Spider-Verse was just so much fun and what i believe the character to be about, regardless of color or race...

rocket1312

I waited to see Far From Home before voting. Not sure why since there was a roughly 0% it was going to be better than Spider-Man 2. I actually just re-watched the first two Raimi films after picking up the UHD trilogy and while the first one has some warts (didn't love it even when it came out back in '02), the second is as good as ever. Special effects aside, I can't for the life of me figure out what is "dated" about them, unless "dated" is just code for "not the MCU." Give me a director with a discernible visual style, drama that isn't constantly undermined by some quip, and a movie that feels like an actual movie rather than an episode of an ongoing tv show any day of the week. I really enjoy Tom Holland, but the character he's playing barely resembles Spider-Man, or at the very least barely resembles Spider-Man as written by Stan Lee. Tobey Maguire, on the other hand, is pretty much perfect as Peter Parker. I'll admit that when he puts on the suit there's a little something missing in his interpretation, but he's so good as Parker that it's easy for me to overlook. JK Simmons and Rosemary Harris are two of the most perfect castings in comic book movie history. The character Kirsten Dunst is playing isn't really MJ (feels more like Betty Brandt to me), but the chemistry between her and Maguire is really sweet. The will they/won't they aspect of their relationship starts to wear a little thin by the end 2, but I love that final shot of her watching Spider-Man swing off to some mission and her happy face turns to dread. It's the relationships that really make these movies click. Green Goblin is of course the elephant in the room with the first movie. Dafoe is awesome as Osborn, but as soon as he puts on that terrible costume it all goes wrong. They also tried to cram too much into the first one. The whole first movie should have taken place in high school. The second is allowed to breathe a little more and Octavius is one of the great big screen comic villains. It's also hilarious in a way that doesn't depend on every character being a sassy quip machine. Notice I haven't mentioned the Garfield movies. I saw the first one and promptly purged it from my memory. Never saw the second one and I probably never will. Spider-Verse was incredible as a piece of pop art, but I need to see it again to see if it holds up on second viewing. I doubt I'll like it more than SM2, but it might solidify itself as my #2.

Sonic

True.

B5Erik

I like ham.