blatchy

BN has an obligation to protect the same customers they entice. If they do business, make deals with companies with less than sound business practices or financial forecasts, they should encounter some blame for bringing their customers into this situation...like Outpost did by withdrawing their support for Flooz. Saw the writing on the wall, saved themselves and their customers hassle in the long run. And let's face it...if we can see a company start to fold, you can't tell me that someone at B&N didn't see it either.

So don't pass on this "aww shucks" attitude to me...B&N at least shares some blame...


Also, with the person who brought up the Visa card analogy...with the Visa card, they may have your number but, in the case of a preorder, funds are not withdrawn until the item shipped. Flooz immediately withdraws from your account regardless. But nice of them to tell us now that that's not really what happens...

bhauge

Well, all seems to be well with my order as well. I placed an order for THE GODFATHER COLLECTION on 7/15. When I called this morning to inquire about the status, I was immediately put on hold for about 3 minutes. When she came back, she said that I would be getting a new order number and a confirmation email later today!

I don't know if any of this would have happened on it's own without me calling. If you're in the same situation, I suggest giving them a call (800-843-2665).

LBPound

You didn't have to give the big speech or anything...they just gave it to you?

murpm3

This is just all too weird.

jiggyblau

Wow. I wish I could remember how many times in my two phone calls so far I asked for an email confirmation or new order number, yet nothing was granted. This is interesting indeed.

CitizenX

Allegedly, they are going to cover my orders... if it wasn't over a $100 in flooz I probably wouldn't be pursuing it.

But this is kinda fun!

chanster

I can't believe people are blaming the customers in this scenario. BN TOOK the FLOOZ OUT OF OUR ACCOUNTS.
At that time, Flooz was a perfectly valid form of payment. They took the money out, it was in their possession. I challenge anyone who claims they are only pre-authorizing flooz to back up that claim....

I know for a FACT they take FLOOZ out IMMEDIATELY. Three months ago, I pre-ordered Big Trouble in Little China with Flooz. Wanted to cancel the preorder (found a better deal) and canceled the order. It took me 2.5 months to get my flooz back, because Flooz claimed that BN had taken the money out immediately. BN did not deny this but it took them 2.5 months to notify Flooz of my credit.

Whoever chastised people with Flooz for "buying gift certificates at a store was about to close" is correct. But in this case, BN basically (through their agreement to take flooz) was the one buying shady gift certificates.

So, the Visa Analogy is completly false. What BN did is in effect take the money, realize that they were in possession of worthless
credits, and try to make their customers eat the loss by claiming they never took the money out in the first place.

I am glad they came to their senses. I wish everyone who bought something at BN gets their order reinstated.

LBPound

So if they're going to cover over $100 in Flooz for you....
...they better cover those orders less than $100 in Flooz for all of us.

JWolff

That was easy enough! I called up BN.com, asked for a Special Payments Processing Customer Service Representative (long enough title), gave her my order number and said that I had 3 DVDs on the order, two that had already shipped and one that was a pre-order (Hannibal).

She responded with "Oh, two already shipped. Hold on." 30 seconds later she came back and said "I've replaced Hannibal on your order and you will receive a confirmation e-mail when it ships next week".

No hassle at all.

Dr_Evil

I wish they would just send me some confirmation already. My previous order shows no change to it, and there is no sign of a new order as of yet. I have also asked multiple times for some type of confirmation. I am going to continue to call and email them until I get some written statement from them saying that the original charge to my CC is all that I will be paying.

LBPound

Has your friend responded to any of your e-mails yet? Anxiously waiting...

Are you guys who called sure that you're not going to be charged anything extra on your credit card? From the modified text on the website, it sounds as if you're calling to authorize new payment. befuddled as always...

Dr_Evil

No he has not come through yet. I will give him till 5:00 pm today to get the job done or else he's getting an email. When I talked to him I asked him flat out "so the only thing that will be charged to my credit card is the $13.xx that is left over after the flooz and the GC?" and he said "yes the only charge to your card will be $13.xx" They had better not try and charge me the full price or I will be furious.

Has anyone actually received a response via email about anything dealing with this issue yet?

jiggyblau

No response yet from last night's email.

MrGoat00

i got a response from an e-mail, it was sent out the night i received the dreaded e-mails from B&N. It basically refused to reinstate my orders.

LBPound

Well then maybe it's a good thing, I haven't received a reply yet from B & N or the "good guy" () because I really wrote my heart out (not really, but it was a strong email) so maybe those e-mails will get something done.

Dr_Evil

Well i just got a call from the guy I talked to. He said that he was going to go ahead and process the order. He also said that he had received some other emails about the issue, and that unless you had talked to him over the phone you won't be able to resolve the issue with him. So you guys should probably try something else if you were counting on that. He said that some VP of something told them today that they are not supposed to honor any of these deals, but he would put mine through since he had already told me he would. So cut the guy a break and drop communication with him if you contacted him, I think there were only about 5 or so people.

bhauge

OK, this just got a little weird for me. I posted earlier today that I called and got my order reinstated for the orginal amount for THE GODFATHER:

78.95
-10.00 (coupon)
-50.00 (FLOOZ)
1.98
----
20.93

I didn't have to talk to a supervisor to get this. They said they would send an email reflecting this and it would have a new order number. When I checked the email, it listed the amount as $80.93 (no coupon or FLOOZ applied)! I called back, got a different CSR, and he proceeded to tell me that I'd have to take this matter up with FLOOZ and that they would not give me the order at $20.93. After several minutes of arguing and asking to speak to a supervisor, I mentioned the name of the original CSR (Kendra) that I spoke with. He went off-line and Kendra came on. She was very apologetic and said that her instructions to the Credit Department got messed up. She said that they would reinstate my order for the original amount and that I would be getting yet another email reflecting this.

I then asked her what other people should do who are in this situation and why are we hearing different stories from the CSRs. She said everyone in this situation needs to contact B&N. If they don't, then their orders will be cancelled. Apparently not all of the CSRs have gotten the word that some/most/all of the FLOOZ orders will be corrected. It's still not clear what the circumstances are that determine whether they will reinstate the order (date of order, amount of FLOOZ involved, etc.), so your case may be handled differently than mine was. Finally, make sure you take down the names of the people you talk to. It sure came in handy in my case. Good Luck!

LBPound

E-mail? Phone? Did she specify?

bhauge

Sorry, I didn't ask. Phone seemed to work the best for me since I could pursue it until I felt it got resolved.

Dr_Evil

I still don't feel like my issue has been resolved. I've been told twice that my order will be changed and a confirmation will be mailed to me. Yet here I sit no farther along then the day i started. My old order is still "in process" and I have no confirmation. I don't know how long it will take to get some finallity with this issue. I guess once the Godfather and Memento are in my hands I will feel it is resolved. Until then, I will continue to call and email...

dag16

Just as a side note, I once had a very bad CSR rep from AOL(had to use them for work) and he wouldn't let me cancel my subscription because it was in the middle of the month. He kept saying "Well, I can cancel your account, but since you've already paid for the full month, that would just be wasting your money, so why don't you wait a few weeks, and then cancel at the end of the month!" After about 15 minutes of this, I lost my sh*t and told him to disconnect my (insert many expletives here) account, what he is doing is illegal, and then I made the mistake of asking his name. He refused to give it to me, disconnected my service, and then hung up on me.
So, they CAN and DO hang up on you. And make sure you get the name at the beginning of the call...

Hoc

Just an update of a letter about to be sent:

To Whom It May Concern:

This will confirm my conversation with your Customer Service Supervisor, Vernita Bass. As I informed Ms. Bass, Barnes and Noble (“B&N”) on its website has, for at least the past year, been accepting the online cash named “flooz” as a manner of payment of online orders. Over the past two months, as in prior months, orders placed using “flooz” have been accepted and the “flooz” was deducted from the purchaser’s flooz account at the time of purchase.

B&N paired with Flooz.com, Inc. as an online partner, and vigorously supported the flooz method of payment. On or about August 3, 2001, the flooz website went down and Flooz.com, Inc. temporarily suspended all of its business operations. At this time, B&N posted the following statement on its website:

“Flooz is no longer able to process transactions, and we have removed them from our site. However, as a committment to our customers, we will honor purchases already made at Barnes & Noble.com with Flooz dollars.

At this time, it appears unlikely that they will be able to return. If you have questions about unspent Flooz dollars please contact Flooz directly.”

Despite the above representation, and despite actually deducting the purchasers’ flooz dollars from their accounts, on or about August 13, 2001, B&N began retroactively cancelling all customer orders that had been accepted with Flooz. In my discussion with Ms. Bass this morning, she indicated that B&N had simply changed its mind and was not going to abide by the terms set forth above, nor would it honor the orders placed where flooz had actually been deducted by B&N from the purchaser’s account. Ms. Bass also indicated that the posting on the B&N website regarding honoring of flooz payments was made only because B&N believed that it would be paid by flooz. Once it became likely that flooz would not pay B&N, B&N altered its website to remove the representation above, and retroactively began cancelling orders.

Clearly, this move is a bald attempt by B&N to shift to customers the burden of a bad deal it made with Flooz.com, Inc. After accepting payment by Flooz.com, Inc. And deducting the flooz funds from the customers’ flooz accounts, when it became clear that it was unlikely that Flooz.com, Inc. would honor its debt to B&N, B&N chose simply to shift the risk of loss from itself to its customers. This is a clear breach of contract with each of those customers, and a fraudulent business practice.

B&N’s conduct in this instance constitutes an “unfair business practice” under California Business & Professions Code §17200. It may also constitute a “fraudulent business practice under that section, as well. Section 17200 is designed to protect consumers against fraud and deceit as well as to protect competitors. People v Dollar Rent-A-Car Systems, Inc. (1989) 211 Cal App 3d 119, 259 Cal Rptr 191.

"Unfair" in the context of the statute means any practice whose harm to the victim outweighs its benefits. "Fraudulent," as used in the statute, does not refer to the common law tort of fraud, but only requires a showing members of the public are likely to be deceived. A plaintiff
suing under §17200 does not have to prove he or she was directly harmed by the defendant's business practices. An action may be brought by any person, corporation, or association, or by any entity acting for the interests of itself, its members, or the general public. Saunders v Superior Court (1994) 27 Cal App 4th 832, 33 Cal Rptr 2d 438.

The test of whether a business practice is unfair involves an examination of that practice's impact on its alleged victim balanced against the reasons, justifications and motives of the alleged wrongdoer. In brief, the court must weigh the utility of the defendant's conduct against the gravity of the harm to the alleged victim. An unfair business practice occurs when the practice offends an established public policy or when the practice is immoral, unethical, oppressive, unscrupulous or substantially injurious to consumers. The fraud prong of §17200
is unlike common law fraud or deception. A violation can be shown even if no one was actually deceived, relied upon the fraudulent practice, or sustained any damage. Instead, it is only necessary to show that members of the public are likely to be deceived. Podolsky v First Healthcare Corp. (1996) 50 Cal App 4th 632, 58 Cal Rptr 2d 89.

Accordingly, demand is hereby made, under Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code §17200 (Deering 2001), that B&N honor its commitments to its customers and immediately reinstate all orders placed using flooz where such flooz was actually deducted from the customers’ flooz accounts. In the event that it fails to do so, please be advised that all appropriate legal action will be taken in response, which may include, without limitation, the filing of a civil lawsuit against B&N with the purpose of having such orders reinstated and seeking appropriate damages for failure to do so.

Very Truly Yours,


[Hoc]

LBPound

Yeah, Hoc, stick it to the man. I'm in, if they don't work this out for everyone individually...

Dr_Evil

As am I, I thought that my order was going through but as of yet it has not. Please keep me on file so that I may still be included. The letter sounds great.

Rider69

Like the letter...you a lawyer?

Anyway, I called yesterday and was told I would recieve a call from a supervisor. It never came. Tried calling back today and spoke with Ladany, a supposed supervisor in the Special Payment Processing Customer Service Dept. She was cordial, but would not help one bit as far as getting my order reinstated. I mentioned how some are having their orderds reinstated and why some are being treated differently from others, to which she replied "I don't know why they (the customers) are misunderstanding that they will not be having their orders paid by unavailable Flooz". So to help others out, if anyone receives a confirmation email regarding a reinstated order, please either post it here or at least please send me a copy so that I can use it as leverage and get my GODFATHER SET.

On a side note, she did not seem the least bit concerned that B&N is getting hammered all over the net for bad business practices. I wonder if her supervisor knows that?