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Heroes -- "Duel" -- 12/15/08

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Heroes -- "Duel" -- 12/15/08

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Old 12-17-08, 07:13 PM
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Some things to keep in mind:

1. For now, time travel is dead (apart from Daphne's B.S. version, which I don't think they'd reuse). Hiro got his power taken. Arthur died. And Peter only has his absorption power back, plus flight & probably blue flame - but since Hiro doesn't have his power, Peter can't absorb it again. So until they decide on how Hiro gets his power back, there is no time travel!

2. I'm thinking Ando's power + somebody else's power = Earth explodes. The planet may still need saving.

3. I'm not entirely sure Nathan's plan was to give literally EVERYONE powers. I think the plan was to give all the "good" people powers - the implication being, you'd have to meet some sort of qualifications to get the formula. So the new plan is not that much of a flip - he's going to get all the powered people locked up, and then presumably go the company route - use the "good" people for your aims, lock up the "bad" people.

I wonder if Heroes will go the International route with this next volume. Now that the U.S. government knows about people with powers, they've got to be concerned about Homeland Security - wondering what kind of powers are going on in other countries.
Old 12-17-08, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Chucky
I wonder if Heroes will go the International route with this next volume. Now that the U.S. government knows about people with powers, they've got to be concerned about Homeland Security - wondering what kind of powers are going on in other countries.
ugh, don't forget the awful 'Wonder Twins' from S2.
Old 12-17-08, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Giantrobo
RIP Meredith aka BioMom. Well...at least until you come back.

That story line (death) didn't make sense either! Claire already proved (through Elle) that she could take in someone's power and survive it. Why didn't that thought occur to Claire to try it this time?

Plus Meredith tried to train her to fight by enclosing her in that box with her fire and both were fine. In the box, I thought the fire didn't affect Meredith, which would mean she can still be alive.
Old 12-17-08, 08:04 PM
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Hopefully this next volume deals with what we saw in the episode "five years gone", when hiro and ando traveled to the future, with Sylar playing Nathan, and Peter still had his scar and Tracy calling Hiro "General Chang". I thought that was the best episode of Season 1.
Old 12-17-08, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by mosquitobite
That story line (death) didn't make sense either! Claire already proved (through Elle) that she could take in someone's power and survive it. Why didn't that thought occur to Claire to try it this time?

Plus Meredith tried to train her to fight by enclosing her in that box with her fire and both were fine. In the box, I thought the fire didn't affect Meredith, which would mean she can still be alive.
She could absorb electricity, she couldn't absorb fire.
Old 12-17-08, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by mosquitobite
That story line (death) didn't make sense either! Claire already proved (through Elle) that she could take in someone's power and survive it. Why didn't that thought occur to Claire to try it this time?

Plus Meredith tried to train her to fight by enclosing her in that box with her fire and both were fine. In the box, I thought the fire didn't affect Meredith, which would mean she can still be alive.
couldn't she just put her hands in the toilet bowl?
Old 12-17-08, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by mosquitobite
Plus Meredith tried to train her to fight by enclosing her in that box with her fire and both were fine. In the box, I thought the fire didn't affect Meredith, which would mean she can still be alive.
If there was a huge explosion, the building probably fall down. She's be crushed. However, her survival is possible if she wasn't crushed.
Old 12-17-08, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Chucky
3. I'm not entirely sure Nathan's plan was to give literally EVERYONE powers. I think the plan was to give all the "good" people powers - the implication being, you'd have to meet some sort of qualifications to get the formula. So the new plan is not that much of a flip - he's going to get all the powered people locked up, and then presumably go the company route - use the "good" people for your aims, lock up the "bad" people.
This is exactly right... I have no idea where the "level the playing field" idea came from.

It was idiotic of Nathan to "turn heel" for this reason. His reasoning was that if you give only good people powers, they can do so much good. And of course bad people would never get powers.

This is still in line with his change of heart in this episode, though. His underlying goal was to make the world safer, and so he wants to lock everyone that has powers up so that they don't become despots. I have no idea how he's going to hide the fact that he has powers, especially since members of his family are on the hitlist, and presumably they'd come up with a way to test for powers.

Fake-Nikki's "heel turn" is even more remarkable... she's just a stone-cold killer now.

Mohinder continues to be an idiot. His argument against Peter was: "look at your allies, they're thugs, you're obviously on the wrong side!" Of course, they were his allies just a few minutes ago.

This is the second episode in a row where a useless person without powers goes on a super important mission. Last week it was Peter being sent to kill his dad. This week it was Hiro going to steal the formula. I realize these are the main characters, and it all worked out, but still.

The Haitian MIA was just odd... was he stuck in traffic trying to tail Sylar, who seemingly teleported all the way back to the Company instantly?

Still, I liked this conclusion,and I like the direction the next arc is going in. But if you think too hard about the plot of this season, it'll make your brain hurt:

1) What was Arthur's master plan? To create people with powers? Why? Why did he recruit all the "villains?" It's not like the heroes all ganged up to go against him... in the end, the biggest threat was Sylar, and his "band of villains" were all worthless.

2) Why was it so important for Peter to absorb and learn Sylar's power in the future? That went nowhere, and presumably Peter lost that power anyway.

3) Why did Arthur choose to use Linderman's image to influence Nathan? There was no payoff for that at all: I don't think Nathan ever found out what really happened, nor did he question why Linderman stopped appearing. And if Linderman wasn't involved at all, how did Nathan get healed anyway?

4) Why turn Sylar good, then bad, then good, then bad again? Just to keep him occupied so that his overwhelming powers didn't become the focal point of the whole season? There was never any convincing catalyst for any of his personality changes.
Old 12-17-08, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by fujishig

4) Why turn Sylar good, then bad, then good, then bad again? Just to keep him occupied so that his overwhelming powers didn't become the focal point of the whole season? There was never any convincing catalyst for any of his personality changes.
They took the whole "Sabertooth" thing they tried to do with him when they made him HRG's sidekick and threw it away after 2 episodes. That, at least to me, was one of the better things they did this season and it went no where.
Old 12-18-08, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by kiddk1
6 weeks is too long to make fans wait, these damn shows dont air until sept or oct now and end in may, I remember as a kid the shows would begin and end with he school years.
The shows' seasons may have started earlier and ended later when you were a kid, but that's because the seasons were padded with a lot of reruns. The schedule would be like: 2 new episodes, 1 rerun, 1 new episode, 2 reruns, 3 new episodes, 1 rerun... so that over the course of 3 months you'd have seen 6 new episodes. Shows like House and some sitcoms still air like that.

Also, a winter break has also consistently been the norm. Look at the first season of WKRP, which had a 2 month break after airing 8 episodes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...nnati_episodes

Or Season 1 of the X-Files, which had a 2 week break from Nov to Dec, then aired 2 eps, then another 2 week break, then 1 ep, then 1 break, then 1 ep, then 1 break..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...281993-1994.29

Networks have found that this constant new/rerun rotation doesn't work well with serialized shows, since the pattern makes it hard for people to keep track of when the new episodes air, and if they miss it, they may drop the series until the DVD comes out so they can "catch up." Likewise, reruns don't do too well, since a serialized show relies too much on past episodes for a random episode from the season to stand as a solid standalone viewing. Thus they're often aired in one continuous run, which is why shows like 24 and LOST aren't starting their seasons until next year. Heroes seems to have tweaked this arrangement by breaking their seasons into 2 "Volumes," or mini-seasons so that they can have the show on the air in both the fall and the spring.
Old 12-18-08, 12:57 AM
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Did I miss something? How the hell did Arthur get 16years into the past to steal the catalyst and Hiro's powers?

Originally Posted by fujishig
Mohinder continues to be an idiot. His argument against Peter was: "look at your allies, they're thugs, you're obviously on the wrong side!" Of course, they were his allies just a few minutes ago.
Not only that but didn't he kill like a half dozen people and Spackle them to his wall? All of a sudden hes lecturing Nathan on wright and wrong.
Old 12-18-08, 01:43 AM
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I think at the time Arthur stole Peter's powers, Peter still had the ability to mimic Hiro's power.

It's best just to forget any logic with the show and Mohinder in particular; he's just terribly written.
Old 12-18-08, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Thrush
Did I miss something? How the hell did Arthur get 16years into the past to steal the catalyst and Hiro's powers?
He stole Hiro's power in Africa when he was with Mr. African Isaac.
Old 12-18-08, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
He stole Hiro's power in Africa when he was with Mr. African Isaac.
No, he only stole Hiro's memory in Africa, since Hiro and Ando teleported out of Africa to escape him, and Hiro teleported to Kansas, teleported Sylar and Elle to the remote beach with cell reception, then traveled back in time after that encounter in Africa.

When Arthur stole Peter's power, it was implied Arthur also received all the powers Peter had, which included Hiro's powers. Thus Arthur didn't steal Hiro's powers in the past in order to gain those powers; he already had them. Rather, it was solely to remove them from Hiro so he'd be stuck in the past.

Interesting thought: At the end, Arthur had his own, Peter's, and Sylar's abilities (since Peter had Sylar's ability before Arthur stole it). So he had all 3 ways we know of for gaining new powers.
Old 12-18-08, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Jay G.
The shows' seasons may have started earlier and ended later when you were a kid, but that's because the seasons were padded with a lot of reruns. The schedule would be like: 2 new episodes, 1 rerun, 1 new episode, 2 reruns, 3 new episodes, 1 rerun... so that over the course of 3 months you'd have seen 6 new episodes. Shows like House and some sitcoms still air like that.

Also, a winter break has also consistently been the norm. Look at the first season of WKRP, which had a 2 month break after airing 8 episodes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...nnati_episodes

Or Season 1 of the X-Files, which had a 2 week break from Nov to Dec, then aired 2 eps, then another 2 week break, then 1 ep, then 1 break, then 1 ep, then 1 break..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...281993-1994.29

Networks have found that this constant new/rerun rotation doesn't work well with serialized shows, since the pattern makes it hard for people to keep track of when the new episodes air, and if they miss it, they may drop the series until the DVD comes out so they can "catch up." Likewise, reruns don't do too well, since a serialized show relies too much on past episodes for a random episode from the season to stand as a solid standalone viewing. Thus they're often aired in one continuous run, which is why shows like 24 and LOST aren't starting their seasons until next year. Heroes seems to have tweaked this arrangement by breaking their seasons into 2 "Volumes," or mini-seasons so that they can have the show on the air in both the fall and the spring.
That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out objection

--Judge Chamberlain Haller

Last edited by kiddk1; 12-18-08 at 07:45 AM.
Old 12-18-08, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by fujishig
This is exactly right... I have no idea where the "level the playing field" idea came from.
The only reason I made that assumption was because that was the case in the "future" that they were trying to prevent. Everybody had access to powers and future Pete wanted that to be fixed. I assumed that was Arthur's master plan. Like you stated, his plan was a bit murky, at best.
Old 12-18-08, 11:47 AM
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I finally watched this. If any character has run their course, it's Sylar. His character, among others, have really become annoying.
Old 12-18-08, 01:11 PM
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I actually thought evil Sylar was one of the best parts of the episode (and last week's as well). My only complaint was that they messed with his character so much this season, only to turn him back to what he was in the first season. When used a bit more sparingly, he makes an excellent big threat.
Old 12-18-08, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by riley_dude
I finally watched this. If any character has run their course, it's Sylar. His character, among others, have really become annoying.
Yeah I think I've had an assfull of HRG/Noah.
Old 12-18-08, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Giantrobo
Yeah I think I've had an assfull of HRG/Noah.
His character definitely worked better as a Cigarette Smoking Man type character. Smaller quantities add to the mystique.
Old 12-18-08, 02:52 PM
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Old 12-18-08, 03:15 PM
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That's great.
Old 12-19-08, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by tofu
Good end to that story arc. Interesting direction for Nathan to take but kinda surprised that there aren't any sentinels involved.
Exactly what I said when I saw this. I said, "When all else fails, turn your show into Days of Future Past." My father, not being familiar with either, was sitting there and aptly said, "What?"

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
I'm not a fan of giving the last remaining normal person, Ando, a power, but I have to say, I like his power.
Also a Marvel ripoff. His name is Fabian Cortez. An original idea would be nice. Every fucking character has a Marvel corollary. May as well just call it Earth-1423 (Numerical for NBC), though it's rapidly becoming Earth-811.

Originally Posted by Jam Master Jay
There's no way Sylar is dead, the same thing happened to Peter in Season 1 and I think I've seen this story before there was this comic some years back it was called X...something?
Also, Sylar still has regeneration. Doesn't matter how badly he's fucked up.

Originally Posted by rfduncan
I believe the dialogue leads one to believe that his "absorb and mimic" ability has been restored. He was only able to fly because he re-learned Nathan's ability (and probably blue flame torch guy's?). So he is no longer invincible until he meets Claire again.
QFT.

Originally Posted by kiddk1
I didnt get that peter got his "absorb" abilities (although he may have) the way it appeared to me is that he took a dose of the formula and he was able to fly. nothing else showed he could absorb, or did I miss something.

Oh yeah I Loved the scene where Sylar Owned the puppet master.
When Mohinder was about to inject Peter with the formula a couple eps back, he said something to the effect that Peter's body is already prepared to house powers, so he was the perfect candidate to obtain artificial ones. I think artificial powers, like others have said, just 'activate' one's natural, dormant powers.

Originally Posted by Vipper II
I actually liked when the puppet master started to own Sylar, and I was kind of hoping that he'd continue to do so.
I liked that, too, but since Sylar can now absorb powers without the head chopping action, it would be useless in about one second, because Sylar should be able to turn it back on him.

Originally Posted by Goldberg74
Too fucking funny.

I also find it hilarious that we've now been divided into two camps; those who hope Hiro gets his powers back and those who are thankful the time-travel element has been eliminated from the show. I'm hoping this is the opportunity we've been waiting for where Hiro becomes a true Samurai badass. He can get powers back when he gets electrocuted by Ando.

Just like it took Hiro some time to master his powers, it should take Ando some time, as well. Hopefully, he'll get to the point where he can slow or damper powers, just like the Haitian, super-charge them like he did to the Speedster, or just overload them and make that person pass out. Then, he wouldn't have such a shitty power.

If you play back African Isaac's scream of death, slow it down and run it backwards, he says, “If You Strike Me Down, I Shall Become More Powerful Than You Could Possibly Imagine.”
Old 12-19-08, 09:57 PM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by DarkestPhoenix
Also a Marvel ripoff. His name is Fabian Cortez. An original idea would be nice. Every fucking character has a Marvel corollary. May as well just call it Earth-1423 (Numerical for NBC), though it's rapidly becoming Earth-811.
Is this really a fair criticism? Gee, the comic book industry has has a few decades on this show... Can you think of an original character that rocks? All I can think of is someone that can turn anything into delicious Smores.
Old 12-19-08, 10:49 PM
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Where did Arthur's body go? He was dead on his back, and Peter knocked out Nathan. So both are lying in the room as Peter walks out. Next time we see Nathan, he is getting revived by the 4400 guy, and Arthur's body is MIA! Did I miss something??

--John


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