magi

I saw a few mention Jack doing surgery on Ben. Does anyone happen to remember if there is a shot of Ben shirtless? Perhaps with a bullet wound in his chest? That would be too awesome if there was.

Dr. Henry Jones, Jr.

I think he was laying on his stomach the whole time.

Vipper II

Exactly. At the very least he could have checked the kid's pulse.

aintnosin

Sayid is used to killing adults, not 12-year-olds.

Palaver

Be careful what you wish for.



You really can't tell.

Pharoh

I remain confused about Widmore and the timeline. Perhaps somebody could help enlighten me.

How could Widmore have been the leader of the Others until the late 80s or early 90s and become the man he is now? Was Penny born on the island? Why did she apparently not know anything about the island?

Or, if he traveled back and forth from the island while the leader, why can he not locate the island?

One thought is that they can leave and return if they know where the island is, but not after it "moves". So he was "forced" to move the island which resulted in his exile. However, how could Dharma, who was seemingly in control of the mechanism of moving the island, still travel back and forth? Relatedly, how would they allow Widmore to move the island?


Lastly, and this is not directly from the show, but is Widmore connected to Dharma in any way, and if so how is that possible?

Aphex Twin

Remember Sayid had blue balls immediately before he got back on the island. That bounty hunter chick got him all hot and bothered and hard and he was left with no release. That can really get to a man and affect his behavior.

aintnosin

Do we have any proof that Widmore was ever on the island after Locke met him the 1950s? Was he the "leader" of the others or was he just the bankroll?

pinata242

I think you're agreeing with me...?

Aphex Twin

I'm saying his hormones are in an imbalanced state. Unless he masturbated while in that cell and Ben's dad had to clean up the mess? That would explain why he was so angry at Sayid.

pinata242

Ok. I was just saying that he wasn't comfortable killing a child, regardless of it being his eventual enemy. That and he didn't consider himself a killer anymore and Ben being right about that tipped him even further over the edge.

My point is that he wasn't thinking clearly, but just acting. So that's why he didn't make sure Ben was dead - he's assuming it and leaving the scene to not be reminded.

Aphex Twin

I'm agreeing with you, pinata242, but for different/additional reasons. Sayid's sexual frustrations were manifesting.

Pharoh

Going by what Widmore has said. He told Locke that he was the leader of the Others for 30 years, (or something to that effect), and that it was Ben who forced him off the island.

And I am fairly certain that Widmore wouldn't be quite as upset with Ben if he had been off the island since before Ben was even born.

Joe Schmoe

Why did Sayid look concerned for Ben when his Dad got angry at him for bringing the sandwich if Sayid was having thoughts of killing Ben?

Palaver

Unless Widmore started Dharma to get back to the island and Ben helped wipe them all out.

Palaver

I don't think he had plans on killing Ben until after the interrogation. Before then, he was wanting to be set free. After that, he didn't... knowing that Ben was going to help free him.

Boba Fett

I think Sayid was very conflicted. He felt horrible for the way the kid was treated, but ultimately, may have seen himself in Ben. A decent kid abused/bullied, who ultimately grew up to be an evil man. Like him or not, Sayid is a killer and it wasn't Ben Linus who made him that way.

Draven

If that is true it is FUCKING LAME.

pinata242

However it appears it was Sayid that made Ben Linus the way he is.

Claytonian

On the nose. Almost verbatim what I was thinking after I read Joe's question.

Pharoh

That is what I thought previously, but the timing doesn't work out. Widmore is/was still on the island long after Dharma was started.

Pointyskull

We first saw Widmore in the mid-1950s, in the Jughead ep. At that time, he appeared to be just a grunt-level hostile, and Richard Alpert appeared to be the man in charge.

Widmore could have theoretically taken leadership of the hostiles by 1960 (as an example), and been in charge until 1990.

If he was truly tricked off the island by Ben, it very likely that could be tied to the as-yet-unexplained "incident".

Or perhaps a result of a Ben vs. Widmore power struggle after the purge, which would then make Widmore's 30-year-rule having a start date after 1960. I think.

I sense that Richard has elevated to some other level amongst the hostiles, like some kind of figurehead, rather than the day-to-day leader. I have no episode-specific facts to back that up. Just a hunch.

Aphex Twin

Widmore was spying every single survivor of Oceanic 815. Why didn't he just get on the plane to Guam if he wanted to get back on the island so badly? Did he just think all the survivors were going to Guam at the same time for leisure?

Widmore dropped the ball on this one and it cost him a trip back to the island.

DthRdrX

DthRdrX

The connection was that Ben had Sayid killing the people watching over the others. There is no indication if Widmore knew about 316 yet. I believe he knew where Hawking was, but didn't know the building was a Dharma station used for finding the island. If he did know that, he probably would have taken it over long ago instead of looking for the island for twenty years.