Josh-da-man

Yeah, I remember the whole O. J. Simpson debacle.

Leno was just one clown at that particular circus. The whole O. J. Simpson affair was a complete shitshow from the low-speed Bronco chase until the the acquittal. It dominated the 24-hour news cycle. It spawned catch phrases. Multiple Playboy magazine nude layouts. It put tabloid tv on the map.

It as this perfect storm of pop culture zeitgeist bullshit that completely took over the national attention span for years. Everybody had an opinion. And it had a little bit of everything: A former football star. A well-liked actor. A bloody double homicide. A pretty dead girl and a dead waiter she might have been fucking. A jealous husband. A mystery. Crooked, lying cops. Race. Deceit. Sex. A mystery everyone wanted to solve. Kato Kaelin. And the ground zero was Hollywood.

It is unsurprising that it filtered into things like Seinfeld.

JeffTheAlpaca

Correct all people talked about and the news back then covered OJ and CNN had a daily 30 minute show on the trial so can't blame Leno for anything OJ related when everybody in media and probably the world was consumed with that trial.

SNL joked about it too so why not go after them too and not just Leno?

Personally I am more of a Fallon fan than Leno though Leno was ok and still liked him better than Letterman.

Count Dooku

I love the spin you have put on this topic.
You said Letterman did OJ Simpson jokes just like Leno.
That is not true.
You were informed it was not true.
And you decided this honest piece of information was an attack on Leno.

Yes, the entire country --except for me, I never watched any of the live trial, and the only opinion I had was that OJ was the murderer, and it was obvious from the day of the Bronco chase, if anyone had to think about it for more than a minute, they were an idiot-- was obsessed with this Trial of the Century.
And so, it is not at all surprising that Leno leaned into the zeitgeist, but what he did was distasteful. It just was. But like I posted previously, that kind of take has a lot of 20/20 hindsight in it.
So I am not going to condemn Leno for doing the easy and obvious thing, but I do want to give Letterman credit for his good taste at the time. He likely lost viewers because, as you say, it was all people were talking about, and Letterman avoided the subject.

Leno was always a people-pleaser who gave the public what it wanted. And the public being mostly composed of stupid people, wanted easy and obvious, completely disposable, comedy.

Ever notice that Jay Leno was on TV every night for over 20 years, and no one ever talks about anything memorable that he did, except for the Hugh Grant interview? That's because his show was always mediocre and people forgot about whatever he did or said by the time Conan said goodnight.

Yet for some reason, people can compose long lists of David Letterman's memorable comedy pieces, memorable interviews, and his 9/11 comeback show is regarded as a landmark moment in TV history.
Comedy professionals of the Baby Boomer and X generations will always give Jay his due respect as one of the greatest stand-up comedians, but they all worship Letterman for changing television comedy. Why do you suppose that is? Because Letterman sucked, and they are all in on a conspiracy to gaslight America?

You like Jay. Okay. Lots of people did and still do. So you are one of them. Dave's show was better than Jay's show. It just was. You can call that a subjective opinion, but when a culture reaches a consensus around something subjective, it just becomes the truth. Someone might think the Mona Lisa is a lousy, but the Western culture has made up its collective mind that it is a masterpiece.

Jay and Dave are both going to die in our lifetimes. Just wait and see what's said about each one.

JeffTheAlpaca

He was never as lame as Larry the Cable Guy

AaronHernandez

Johnny Carson? Because clearly he deserved to handpick who hosts The Tonight Show in perpetuity. When Leno retired it was rather rude of the NBC exec's not to have seance to find out who the spirit of Johnny thought could do the job.

Decker

Leno's Manager Planted A Fake News Story Attacking Johnny Carson

After Leno signed on as the host who would take over for Johnny Carson after his retirement, he had to sit around while Carson figured out when he would leave the show. Leno's manager, Helen Kushnick, became impatient and decided to plant a fake story about NBC being disappointed with Carson's performance.

An anonymous "associate" told The New York Times: "[Kushnick] asked me to plant a story somewhere," with no attribution, saying NBC execs thought Carson was stale and his audience was too old. The story ran in The Post on Feb, 11, 1991 with the headline: "There Goes Johnny; NBC Looking to Dump Carson for Jay Leno."

Leno claimed he didn't know who concocted the story, and that he was sure it didn't come from his camp. When he told Carson this, the host simply responded by saying, "It came from you."
________
From the Ranker article
The History Behind How Jay Leno Became The Most Hated Man In Show Business

Decker

He looks good. A good sport too.

Throwing Copper

I watched that Chris Wallace interview with Jay. If you have the millions, they really can work wonders with plastic surgery. Wow.

JeffTheAlpaca

Maybe he could find a place to host a talk show and fill the void with the writers strike?

Count Dooku

When Jay Leno retired as a talk show host ten years ago, it was his choice. If he ever wanted to do another show, some channel would have put him on in a heartbeat. He's in his 70s. He's done with the grind of producing a daily TV show. Now he just does exactly what and how much he wants to do to stay active and busy. He does not need to be relevant and he does not have anything to prove.

Count Dooku

You don't say?

Decker

Plus, you know, it's hard to do a humorous or entertaining show without any writers.

Count Dooku

I think if all (or any) of the current hosts were willing to cross the picket line, they could put together a show without writers. More focus on interviews and musical guests instead of produced comedy bits and monologues to fill the hour. The shows would be different but there could still be shows.

When Jay did his show during the last strike, he wrote his own jokes and did more audience interaction.

windom

Aren't the interviews on a lot of these talk shows mostly scripted anyway?

cultshock

Yeah, that's the kind of thing that happened in previous writers strikes, no opening monologues or bits, but interviews and musical guests were still allowed. But this time it seems that none of the hosts want to cross the picket line.

It's more like someone (not the host) does a pre-interview with a guest to find interesting things they can talk about on air, and gives those conversation bullet points to the host, so not really scripted.

Count Dooku

Each guest has an attached segment producer who handles the pre-interview and works out with the guest what they will talk about, which results in the notes the host uses. It's also much more common with Fallon, Kimmel, and Colbert,than it was in the Letterman and Leno days, for some guests to work with the show's writers on prepared comedy, whether it be "sketches" or just bits that happen during the interview. It all depends on who the guest is, and how much rime and energy they are willing to devote in preparation of their spot.

JeffTheAlpaca

I know everybody likes to go after Leno but give him credit for having a Trans person Ross Matthews on his show which was rare in the 90's and aughts.

windom

Since when is Ross Matthews trans?

Count Dooku

Ross Matthews is not trans, he's gay. And as far as being a representative of the gay community in the 2000s, he was the worst kind of stereotype.

Throwing Copper

I mean people used to laugh at how flaming he was back then.

It was rough.

JeffTheAlpaca

His voice sounded feminine and I thought he was a girl that became a guy.

whotony

Oh boy.

Count Dooku

It can get confusing with the high talkers

JeffTheAlpaca

Count Dooku

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...-ye-rcna136016

I haven't always thought the best of Leno, but I feel very sorry for his wife and him. Married for decades in Hollywood and never a whisper of scandal.