Originally Posted by fumanstan

I agree, given the context of the show I'd actually say the Shireen thing made complete sense for Stannis from everything we've seen. I wouldn't call it uncalled for at all.

Originally Posted by Hiro11

Let me explain it from my perspective: it's one thing to show senseless killing and torture of relatively minor characters or adults who were either too stupid to see it coming (the Starks) or too morally compromised for us really to care that much (Theon).

Originally Posted by Aphex Twin

How come they shot and landed so many spears at Drogon but they couldn't just kill Daeny with one?

Originally Posted by rocketsauce

Ah I get it now, it's ok to violently murder stupid people.

Originally Posted by JaxComet

Before Drogon showed up they were also doing that bad Kung Fu movie thing where only one bad guy attacks at a time instead of rushing in all at once.

Originally Posted by Hiro11

Let me explain it from my perspective: it's one thing to show senseless killing and torture of relatively minor characters or adults who were either too stupid to see it coming (the Starks) or too morally compromised for us really to care that much (Theon).

It's entirely another thing to take a nine year old girl, the one utterly sweet, kindly and innocent character in the show, build her up with several scenes this year and in prior years, carefully establish her father's love, her kindness, her intelligence and her bravery and then with sadistic slowness march her out and have her burned alive screaming for several long minutes while her father watches.

To me, the excruciating build up and absolutely heartlessly brutal delivery of Shireen's death went beyond anything this show has done and into the realm of sadism. At some point watching this scene, it occurred to me that I felt manipulated. I also felt like the show was doing it because it was known as the show that will go places other shows won't. The shocks of the show have become a crutch.

Part of this is certainly due to the fact that the fourth and fifth books of the series are terrible: the show doesn't have much to work with and needs to maintain momentum. I just wish it would try for a different note than unrelenting darkness. Darkness for its own sake doesn't make the show more "hardcore" or "adult" or "interesting", in fact it does precisely the opposite. Unrelenting horror makes it one note, lazy, manipulative and boring. That's how I see it. You may disagree.

Originally Posted by Hiro11

Let me explain it from my perspective: it's one thing to show senseless killing and torture of relatively minor characters or adults who were either too stupid to see it coming (the Starks) or too morally compromised for us really to care that much (Theon).

It's entirely another thing to take a nine year old girl, the one utterly sweet, kindly and innocent character in the show, build her up with several scenes this year and in prior years, carefully establish her father's love, her kindness, her intelligence and her bravery and then with sadistic slowness march her out and have her burned alive screaming for several long minutes while her father watches.

To me, the excruciating build up and absolutely heartlessly brutal delivery of Shireen's death went beyond anything this show has done and into the realm of sadism. At some point watching this scene, it occurred to me that I felt manipulated. I also felt like the show was doing it because it was known as the show that will go places other shows won't. The shocks of the show have become a crutch.

Part of this is certainly due to the fact that the fourth and fifth books of the series are terrible: the show doesn't have much to work with and needs to maintain momentum. I just wish it would try for a different note than unrelenting darkness. Darkness for its own sake doesn't make the show more "hardcore" or "adult" or "interesting", in fact it does precisely the opposite. Unrelenting horror makes it one note, lazy, manipulative and boring. That's how I see it. You may disagree.

Originally Posted by outcastja

What confuses me is that people seem to blame the showrunners, but isn't Shireen killed in the books (or will be)? Why is there no hate towards Martin?

Originally Posted by creekdipper

Since Lord Balon Greyjoy proclaimed himself King of the Iron Islands, it's a shame they didn't have Theon around to sacrifice.

Although he would have died protesting that he was Reek.

Originally Posted by outcastja

What confuses me is that people seem to blame the showrunners, but isn't Shireen killed in the books (or will be)? Why is there no hate towards Martin?

Originally Posted by fujishig

I think one of the problems with Dorne is that we met the coolest one first, then imagined a country full of Oberyns, and we get a bunch of women and a ruler riddled with gout (did they mention the gout in the show? I remember hearing it from here and elsewhere, but I was initially confused why he never got out of his chair). Doran seems like a pretty just guy, but in this world he comes off as weak because everyone else is so vicious, I think. He forgives his brother's mistress for an open act of rebellion and almost instigating a war, he doesn't want to go to war over trivial matters, and his son, the prince, gets hit and he doesn't immediately execute the offender. Unless he has some deeply hidden, evil agenda, the dude is gonna be toast eventually.

Originally Posted by Defiant1

... I don't understand why some people are offended.

Originally Posted by Bill Needle

Stannis is a guy who sees leadership as making the tough choices when they are needed, despite personal desires to the contrary. So he finds himself painted into a corner and has to do something. He was forced to make a move in the face of impending starvation of hundreds (thousands?) of his men, the continued shenanigans of the Bolton boys being inflicted upon the people in the north, and an army of dead folk fast approaching. All of this is aside from the long term goal of achieving the throne. He had to make a decision within the imaginary confines of the plot of the show. In his mind he chose to sacrifice the one (his one no less) for the good of the many. Agree with his decision or not, I don't see it as one that was supposed to be purely self-serving or taken lightly. I highly doubt he did this without the same personal anguish such as that suffered by his wife (who broke after initially agreeing).

I point this out not as a defense of Stannis' character or the path he chose, but the situation was much grayer many seem to want to see because of the knee-jerk revulsion towards the act itself. And that is perfectly in keeping with the themes of the show.

And I have to think Davos knew this was coming before he left. He tried to take her with him, and when Stannis refused he knew what that meant and in his way he said goodbye to her.

Originally Posted by outcastja

What confuses me is that people seem to blame the showrunners, but isn't Shireen killed in the books (or will be)? Why is there no hate towards Martin?

Originally Posted by Jackskeleton

If you're going to be done with the show, then why even bother watching the season finale? Come on now, this whole "I'M DONE WITH THIS SHIT! buuuuuuutt I'll just watch one more" nonsense that people seem to be stomping on about here and elsewhere on the internet is just stupid considering the show started off the way it did and has continued to use children in violent situations.

Originally Posted by House

So stop watching and get out of this thread then Francis.

Originally Posted by Decker

Is that right? I'm not a Fire & Ice reader, but the NYT article states she's still alive in the books.

Originally Posted by dugan

Tell me if I'm right about where Myrcella's story is going: