B5Erik

If that's the case there isn't any point to putting anyone on the list until you know all the candidates.

So my list is still a work in progress, even if I've got 10 people already on it.

Trevor

Day Fifteen Response and Wrap—Up

Love them, and their importance to the industry and long and varied output (including both on my Micronauts!) would have Kane and Ditko in my top 50.

The other artists are solid, but Spider-man was never my jam, so none of them were in my sights for enough time to be in my top tier.

It’d be hard to pick my favorite Spidey artist. Could probably convince myself of any one of them. I’ll go with Ditko today.

My list so far:
Frank Miller
Jack Kirby
Carl Barks
Alan Moore
Mike Mignola
Jeff Lemire

Trevor

Day Sixteen Choices

Today I want to keep it simple. A bit of old and new. Or rather old and less old. You know how we do in comics here lol.

Today I have some master illustrators and some guys you say write good.

Today I ask you if Jack Davis, Garth Ennis, Frank Frazetta or Ed Brubaker are in your top 10.

Trevor

The whole point of the exercise is to discuss your choices as they’re revealed.

This isn’t the standard just list your ten choices and discuss. The purpose is to challenge your pre-existing opinions/list as people discuss their choices.

I have my list in my head.
I don’t mention anyone until they’re a daily choice.
I possibly change my unseen list as discussion warrants.
Within 30 days or so everyone will likely have their full list revealed.

rocket1312

Davis is a legend. A great artist (as so many of those EC guys were), but I mostly associate him with MAD, a magazine I have no real attachment to. No to Davis.

I'm sure I've read something written by Ennis at some point, but I've never read Preacher, The Punisher, Hellblazer or The Boys. I guess you could say Ennis is a blindspot. So that's a no.

Frazetta is probably the greatest fantasy artist who ever lived, but did he ever illustrate a comic? Probably, but if he did I certainly haven't read it. No to Frazetta.

Brubaker, like BKV before him, initially feels like a name that doesn't belong with some of the masters that have been brought up earlier. But that's just anti-recency bias isn't it? When I think of the comics I've read and the comics I've loved, his name comes up an awful lot. Captain America and the Winter Soldier is probably what he's best known for, but every single one of his creator owned books is awesome. Every time I see there's a new one (especially if it's a Sean Phillips collaboration), I pick it up without hesitation. His X-Men run was underwhelming (but he's certainly not in exclusive company there) and I didn't love his Daredevil as much as most people seemed to (still good though), so his hit rate isn't quite as high for me as BKV. I'm not sure what to do here. If he's not in the top 10, he's just outside it. If I loved his Daredevil as much as I do the Bendis run that preceded it, he'd be a no brainer. I think I hold the fact that it's not my most favorite Daredevil run in the history of the world against it since I love both Daredevil and Brubaker and they should be the perfect matchup of writer and character. Ugh. Now I'm just rambling. What the heck. I say yes.

Current list:
Frank Miller
Jack Kirby
Alan Moore
John Byrne
Brian K. Vaughan
Ed Brubaker

fujishig

Yup, I understood it. I just posted saying in my head I know I'm reserving spots for at least some people that haven't come up, otherwise guys like Gaiman would've been on it instantly.

So for now Brubaker makes the list.

B5Erik

Brubaker might have made my list, but he seems to prefer artists with a very modern style that doesn't work for me, so I haven't read much of his work. What I've read was very good, but I really dislike the art, so I've actually sold a couple HC collections of his Captain America work (I tried reading them, but the art just got in the way for me). So, No, to Ed Brubaker.

Frazetta was a great artist, but I know him mostly for album covers at this point.

Jack Davis? I know him only for Mad magazine, and while his work there was brilliant, it wouldn't put him anywhere close to my list.

Garth Ennis? Never heard of him.

No, to all four of them.


My list as it stands today...

John Romita SR
John Buscema
John Byrne
John Romita Jr
Neal Adams
Sal Buscema
Gerry Conway
Marv Wolfman
George Perez
Gil Kane

At least two of them will likely be replaced as other names come up. But, as of today, that's who I've got.

Hokeyboy

Garth Ennis is a must. I discovered Preacher in the summer of 1996 and never looked back, but I was already a fan of his work on Hellblazer and then future work on Hitman, Punisher, The Boys, The Pro, and elsewhere. Easy.

Frank Frazetta's artwork is beyond the descriptor of iconic. He is his own genre. I wouldn't put him in my Top 10 personal favorites overall, but Top 20 seems right.

Ed Brubaker -- man I love Criminal. Probably in my top 10 favorite comics ever. Great runs on Batman, Catwoman, Gotham Central, Sleeper, and Captain America. I'm OK with him on my top 10, for now.

My current list:

Ed Brubaker
John Byrne
Darywn Cooke
Garth Ennis
Neil Gaiman
Jack Kirby
Frank Miller
Alan Moore
Grant Morrison
George Perez

Chopping List:
Neil Adams
Steve Ditko
Denny O'Neill
Walt Simonson
Marv Wolfman

fujishig

I mean, Steve Epting is the artist on a lot of Brubaker's cap run, and I've never heard him called "too modern" an artist. Whose art did you have a problem with?

B5Erik

I didn't care for the art in the Winter Soldier HC collection, and I really disliked the art in the Return of the Winter Soldier HC collection. The art in the Return collection bounced back and forth between modern retro for the 40's stuff and modern for the then current day stuff. I didn't like either. I don't remember who did the art.

majorjoe23

Ed Brubaker makes my list, but I would probably qualify it as Brubaker with Sean Phillips is in my top 10. I enjoy some of his other stuff, but every single thing they do together is magical.

I love Preacher, it has the perfect mix of shock and heart. I feel like too much of Ennis's other stuff leans too much into shock. Looking at his work as a whole, he doesn't make my list.

Hokeyboy

I don't think Ennis is strictly a "shock" writer. While he tilts towards the profane and, at times, the truly disturbed, he also wrote some amazingly great mainstream DC superhero work with Hitman, and his Hellblazer run was not out of the ordinary for the character. His MAX work on Punisher was definitely rated R but for The Punisher that's almost a given.

He does definitely push the envelope though -- no arguments there -- but I wouldn't call that his entire bag of tricks.

majorjoe23

Crap, I forgot how much I enjoy his Punisher.

I have a shelf full of Ennis stuff. I enjoy it more than not, but there’s a fine line for his work and often it just doesn’t quite work for me.

davidh777

I guess I'm not sure what the "problem" is. I feel like most of us have been treating each name as it comes up and being thoughtful about whether it belongs on our list. Yes, a few of us have tossed out prospective future names while wondering if we have room for today's choice, and that may be against the "rules" but I don't remember that being forbidden. And yes, many of us have already filled up 10 knowing that there are many great names yet to come and we'll have to make changes when those come up (unless that's also against the rules, which again I don't remember). But as b5erik said, it's pretty hard to pre-set a top 10 without making any changes because there are so many possible names. If we're not supposed to think and discuss, then that would seem to detract from the game.

There have also been a couple folks who came in mid-game and just presented a full list or offered speculative names because they didn't start from the beginning and weren't aware of the rules. Maybe they're the ones that inspired this "clarification."

Josh-da-man

I'm with davidh777.

This is a weird game. You have to wait for Trevor to throw out a name before you can put it on your list, and you really don't have any idea whether or not one of your absolute top tens will even come up or not, and you're going to have to add and remove names from your list day by day.

There's some potentially interesting discussion to to be had, but it will get lost as everyone is modifying their personal lists.

ytrez

Ennis & Brubaker are two of my favorite writers but I'm struggling to put them on my all-time Top 10 list.

They've both written so many great comics (I LOVE Ennis' Punisher, Preacher, Hitman, the Boys, and more) and Brubaker has has great runs on Captain America and Batman, and his creator-owned stuff is great too. If you haven't read Friday on Panel Syndicate, do so, it's great).

Man, I want to put them on the list but with only 10 spots and more than 80 years of comics history it's too hard. A list of Top 10 comics writers, sure.

Oh, and I think the game works fine. If you don't like it, don't play.

Still my list:
Jack Kirby
Frank Miller
Jaime & Gilbert Hernandez
Joe Kubert
Alan Moore
John Byrne
George Perez
Steve Ditko

Trevor

Day Sixteen Response and Wrap—Up

It’s been mentioned earlier how we all may have a list of 11-20 that is fifty members long, and these four might all make that for me. I've barely read any Brubaker and he’s already way up there for me, so someday when I read this backlog he may join Moore as the only (mostly) writers in my top ten. I haven’t finished Preacher but love what I’ve read, and the other short bits of Ennis’ work I’ve seen over the decades. Pretty sure he’ll climb my rankings as I read more.

Perhaps Jack Davis will be elevated as I read farther back, but he’s one of the long list where I feel I've barely scratched the surface of his work. Frazetta’s art is breathtaking, but most of his comic work was before my lifetime and not in my collection. So while he may make my top ten artists list, just not enough history with his comic work to make my top ten comic creators list.

My list so far:
Frank Miller
Jack Kirby
Carl Barks
Alan Moore
Mike Mignola
Jeff Lemire

Trevor

Day Seventeen Choices

Okay today is cleanup day. Some people been sloppy and been mentioning people who’d make their list. I have considered walking up to all of you and giving you a slap and screaming keep Dave Steven’s name out your mouth but instead I have forgiven you and I’m gonna clean this up now to restore the faith in this institution.

Today I want to know if you have a spot for Richard Corben, Chris Claremont, Geoff Johns, Al Williamson, Dave Stevens, Dave McKean, Keith Giffen, or Brandon Graham.

fujishig

Actual list so far:
Jack Kirby
Alan Moore
John Byrne
Mike Mignola
George Perez
Carl Barks
--- chopping block ---
Ed Brubaker
Frank Miller
Warren Ellis
Neal Adams

With Brubaker yesterday I finally made it to 10.

Corben and Graham I had to look up, so they don't make the list. I think the only thing I read from Graham was his (excellent) Prophet run
I like McKean, but if I were to put one artist of that style in my top 10 it would be Siekiewicz and I don't think he makes it either.
Claremont and Johns are tough. Claremont obviously wrote the definitive X-men run, along with various other X-titles including New Mutants and Excalibur. And he wrote X-men for a long long time. But I don't think I've really really enjoyed anything he's written since around Sovereign Seven, and even his return to the X-men just wasn't the same for me. I am tempted to put him on but if we're considering writers only, I can't put him on when I left off Gaiman.
Same for Johns. I know people dislike him for the movie shenanigans but his Flash, Green Lantern, Teen Titans and JSA run were incredible. He and James Robinson basically brought back the JSA to modern continuity. But I don't think I'd knock off any of the ones on my chopping block for him.

But the toughest of all to me is Giffen. I'm going to have to really think about that one. I'm a huge Legion fan and I love his pre Zero Hour 5YL Legion run (as well as his earlier Legion work, of course). In a time where splash pages were everything he kept to that nine panel grid and just put out amazing stuff. Not my favorite artist but I still liked his style enough to pull him out of "writer-only" territory. And of course his bwah ha ha Justice League. But weirdly what hurts him (on my list) is in a lot of those creative endeavors he split scripting duties with someone else (the Bierbaums, DeMatteis, etc.) and I found some of his solo work like Trencher impenetrable. So I'm not sure yet.

majorjoe23

My pick is Curt Swan.

rocket1312

Claremont is 100% on the list. X-Men is why I got into comics and Claremont basically is the X-Men. Ironically, Claremont's LAST issue of X-Men was my first. I read a handful of his issues during my initial fandom, but it was actually years later when I finally read the bulk of his run. He certainly has his tics and weaknesses, but for better or for worse, his writing voice is my default for what comics are supposed to sound like. I don't even dock him for mostly underwhelming for the last 30 years. The 15 years prior more than make up for it.

Geoff Johns is another interesting one. I had mentioned earlier that there were a handful of writers in the early 2000's that really drive my fandom. Vaughan and Brubaker were two of them and are on my list. Johns would be the third. Flash (the Wally West run) and JSA would probably both be in my top 10 favorite series of the 21st century. Green Lantern was also great (although I stopped reading comics for a while early in that run) and Infinite Crisis was one of my favorite line wide events ever. His ability to make sense of DC's tangled continuity was electrifying to someone like me who was not a seasoned DC kid. He somehow made Hawkman make sense. Now, the hesitation comes with everything that came after that period. I haven't read much of it. I've read a little bit of his Barry-centric Flash, and it's fine, but Barry did not need to come back and it certainly didn't need to be at the expense of Wally, a character that he made his reputation writing! I know a lot of his choices as a DC higher up have been widely criticized, including his role in the films. But I can't judge him on that stuff because I'm just not familiar enough with it. Was he behind new 52? That sucked. Still, on the basis of the titles I mentioned above, I think he has to be on the list.

The rest of those guys are all great (although I don't know who Brandon Graham is), but none make my list. A special shout-out to Al Williamson, who I really enjoy. If you're a Star Wars fan, I'd highly recommend the Al Williamson Empire Strikes Back artist edition from IDW. It's an incredible book.

fujishig

Ha, I forgot that Johns also wrote Barry coming back. But yeah when I mentioned I loved his Flash run it was definitely the Wally run. Bringing Barry back was a mistake, at least to me, and unlike Hal there was absolutely nobody clamoring for it... and then on top of that to use him for Flashpoint. Ugh. I know the new 52 wasn't all him but it's the event that got me out of monthly collecting for good (mostly).

So yeah I guess if I'm going to dock Claremont for coming off the rails later in his career then I'll have to dock Johns too.

Hokeyboy

I'm loving the game as-is because the continual re-evaluation and rethinking makes it more of a fun exercise.

ALSO: making this my personal Top-10 list, rather than a list of who I think are the most important creators regardless of my feelings on their work, makes it a LOT easier. There are some creators I acknowledge and respect for their impact on the artform, and their influence is undeniable, but i may not personally be that much into their output. Like the aforementioned Jim Aparo or whomever.

ANYWAY here are the creators I have something to say about.

Chris Claremont - his X-Men was unassailably great. He basically set the mold for how we view the X-Men today, more than any other creator. Outstanding.

Geoff Johns - his TV and movie work is garbage, but he wrote some of my absolute favorite comics, including JSA in the early 00s, which remained my favorite book for years. Green Lantern during his tenure was superb, same with Flash and Teen Titans. And he re-established Hal Jordan and Barry Allen for better or worse. I never liked Kyle Rayner but I loved Wally West so... I can understand how fans might feel shoved aside by his love for iconic characters. But MAN did he love iconic DC characters. I'm preliminarily adding him to my Chopping List, but highly so.

Keith Giffen - a THOUSAND TIMES, yes. Legion of Super Heroes. Justice League International. AMBUSH BUG. Those three properties alone are my 80s comic-reading lifeblood. While his pencils became a lot more oddly stylized later in his career, his early art as well as his plotting and goofy humor were so infectious.

My Top Ten:
John Byrne
Chris Claremont
Garth Ennis
Neil Gaiman
Keith Giffen
Jack Kirby
Frank Miller
Alan Moore
Grant Morrison
George Perez

Chopping List:
Neil Adams
Ed Brubaker
Darywn Cooke
Steve Ditko
Geoff Johns
Denny O'Neill
Walt Simonson
Marv Wolfman

Hokeyboy

And because I can't help but include comic art here and there, this was one of my favorite panels from my favorite comic story of all time, the Legion of Super-Heroes Great Darkness Saga from 1982. Keith Giffen's co-plotting and art was entirely on point, especially this scene of Superboy and Supergirl beating on Darkseid's ass in the 30th Century.

fujishig

Yeah, Johns (and Robinson) in DC was basically to me what Busiek was to Marvel at the time, just comic book nerds who delved deep into comic history but also had fun and reveled in it. This is why, to me, Johns rebooting with the new 52 and taking away that history (along with right before that basically sidelining Wally West) was such a betrayal.

But man now I'm reconsidering Johns.

Great Darkness Saga along with Dark Phoenix were two of my first tpbs, in a time where most things remained uncollected. The main problem with GDS is that in probably every collection they spoil the big reveal on the cover.

Hokeyboy, what were your thoughts on 5 years later? I loved it but I feel like the fans are kind of indifferent to it. It went off the rails later on but they really went completely out there (like the whole Sean Erin thing is way before it's time) and rolled with all the continuity punches like champs (I especially though pivoting Valor into the Superboy role was inspired, and having that actually plotted out and not just retconned was pretty amazing to me at the time). And so much fan service: that proty/lightning lad thing was total fandom.

I had all my original issues and they got wet and I had to throw them out, and that remains my one regret. I got the omnibus but I'm not sure they'll complete the run. At least it's on DC Universe.