Trevor

Day Five Response and Wrap—Up

I appreciate their art and importance to the hobby, but this ‘family’ slate are all no’s for me. As a kid I was more a DC fan than Marvel, so the Buscema and Romitas never gained a foothold into me. Joe Kubert is likely top 20 for me, probably would have been top ten if I was slightly older and a bigger fan of war books. And while I’ve been meaning to read their stuff for decades and imagine I’ll love it, I somehow keep putting off reading any Los Bros Hernandez.

My list so far:
Frank Miller
Jack Kirby
Carl Barks

Trevor

Day Six Choices

It’s a visual medium, and the old school among us remember when we weren’t in the era of full scripts and writers redefining comics. Do creators who are primarily ‘just’ writers only have enough to make your list?

Often compared and debated as a pair, do modern masters Grant Morrison and Alan Moore make your cut?

Hokeyboy

BOTH do. This is a no-brainer.

Moore is a genre all to himself. Even for the work he did on Superman alone (which is a handful of issues, each one a classic like his Swamp Thing crossover in DC Presents #85, The Man Who Has Everything, Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?), all three are brilliant. Watchmenis my favorite comic of all time -- I read it monthly as it came out in 86-87, including that agonizing 7 month wait between issues 11 and 12. There was nothing like it before and nothing like it since, save for hosts of terrible comics from creators who took the deconstruction theme from the book and ran it into the ground with legions of "grim-n-gritty" superhero comics. Then there's V for Vendetta, The Killing Joke, League of Extraoridinary Gentlemen, his entire ABC line, his masterful Swamp Thing run, and his Supreme run for Rob Liefeld(!) and the list goes on.

I bought Animal Man #1 blindly in 1988 because I had some spare cash and I've been a Grant Morrison fan ever since. What a magnificent, mindbending, fourth-wall-break trip that entire 26y issue run was. One of the most unheralded works of comic genius ever. Doom Patrol raised the bar further, presenting absurdism in a manner never before seen in mainstream superhero comics, and deftly so. 1989's Arkham Asylum was a stroke of delicious madness, the Kid Eternity miniseries, 7 Soldiers, DC One Million, JLA, and quirky Vertigo fare like Flex Mentallo and Sebastian O. And Marvel's groundbreaking New X-Men, which was my favorite after the untouchable Claremont/Byrne/Cockrum era. And then there's All-Star Superman which is sheer magnificence. My favorite Superman story of all time. 12 issues of excellence.

So for now I'm staying with:

Frank Miller
Jack Kirby
Neil Gaiman
Grant Morriosn
Alan Moore

rocket1312

Alan Moore has to be on the list. I'm not a Moore disciple by any means, but Watchmen and LXG are enough for me to make the cut. There's still a lot of his I've never read (have yet to finish Swamp Thing or From Hell), but I've read enough.

Morrison, on the other hand, is a little tougher. While I've probably read as much of his work as I have Moore, I have less of a defined opinion. I LOVED New X-Men, but some of the other stuff leaves me cold. JLA was fine. I was never much of a DC reader growing up, so I don't really appreciate how much of a shot in the arm that book was. I'm not sure I made it all the way through Seven Soldiers. And while I enjoyed a lot of his Batman, at a certain point it just felt confusing for the sake of being confusing. All-Star Superman was pretty awesome though. Still, I'm going to have to give a half hearted no. Maybe once I finally get around to reading Animal Man and Doom Patrol.

ytrez

Alan Moore is a gimme on this list. Swamp Thing was my first exposure to Moore and even the early British works that I've tracked down are good.

Morrison doesn't make my cut. He's below Gaiman on my list, who also didn't break my top ten.

My list so far:

Hokeyboy

What I'm starting to realize is that my comics-reading heyday was about 1982-1991 (ages 11-20). While I was reading earlier and kept reading for about 15 years later, that was my "formative era". A really magical time for any DC and Marvel reader where both publishers were truly reaching out and trying newer and more experimental types of comics (especially in light of a burgeoning independent scnee). Some worked, many more didn't, but it brought a TON of new voices to the Big Two.

B5Erik

I've got Morrison's run on JLA in their Deluxe Edition TPB's. I just haven't read them yet. Looking him up, I don't see much else I'm interested in. So, No, to Grant Morrison.

Alan Moore - I know the name, but not the work. I suspect I wouldn't like it much. This bit from Wikipedia turned me off from him, too...
Yeah, I'm not a big fan of writers who have no respect for continuity and throw it out the window because they think they're better than what came before, and what came before just didn't matter.

So, No to Alan Moore, too.

rocket1312

Seriously. Screw Alan Moore for not having more respect for *checks notes* Supreme! He's easily Rob Liefeld's 12th or 13th greatest creation!

B5Erik

It's attitudes like Moore's that led to the virtual erasing of Amazing Spider-Man 147-150. One of the most important moments in Spider-Man's history (the moment when Peter finally knew who he was and what he was all about) didn't really happen according to Marvel in the mid 90's. Oh, yeah, and Norman Osborn didn't die. PLEASE. We saw his dead body. That was another key moment that Marvel basically erased 30 years later. Why? Because writers like Moore made it clear that you can erase history, regardless of how important that history was to an ongoing title.

I don't give a rat's ass about Supreme. It's the attitude that what came before didn't matter. Continuity does matter.

Kurt D

Don't really know Morrison, but Moore is a giant. Absolute inclusion,

My list, so far, I guess:
Miller
Moore
Kirby

davidh777

Just speaking for myself, if I have to wiki someone, he's likely not going to make my top 10. Even as I acknowledge Gaiman is a known blind spot, my list is people whose work has impacted me, and he doesn't qualify.

Moore is a yes for me, though. I've read Morrison here and there, but not enough to make my list.

My hot take is that I think John is a better artist, but Sal is comfort food for me, having drawn so much of the BA stuff I grew up with. Still, neither makes my list, nor do the Romitas even as I acknowledge their body of work.

I met the Hernandezes at a Fantagraphics store event but haven't read their stuff.

I will include Kubert just because of his Tarzan and war stuff, but I wonder if I'll have room going forward. I probably have more of an attachment to Jim Aparo, and then what happens when/if Neil Adams enters the conversation? I'll worry about that later if I need to, I guess.

My list:
Frank Miller
Jack Kirby
Carl Barks
Joe Kubert
Alan Moore

Eric F

Because I really love the Vertigo (and faux-Vertigo) stuff so much, I have to add Garth Ennis to my list as well. Hitman was one of my favorite titles. One of the most underrated DC titles of the 90s. Love the issue where Tommy meets Superman, he hates all metas and superheroes but loves Supes, gives him a pep-talk and gets his autograph.

PhantomStranger

I'm a hesitant yes on both John Romita and John Buscema, I think. Hard to say until I figure out my full top ten.

Alan Moore is probably #1 on my list, so he's in. Such an influential writer, he set the tone of modern comics with his superhero deconstructions. At the moment, I'm going to say yes on Grant Morrison. His contributions, especially to DC Comics, have carved out their own little niche.

rocket1312

Writers like Moore? I'd argue there's no one like Moore and either way you already admitted that you've never read his work. You're basing your opinion on an offhand comment by Joe Rubenstein and the retcon of a Spider-Man story Moore had nothing to do with. Huh? You don't have to like him, but he's widely considered one of if not THE greatest comics writer of all time. You only have to read his first issue of Swamp Thing to know that whatever he might have done to change the character (I have no idea because I've never read a Swamp Thing comic not written by Moore) was for the absolute best. It's astonishing.

​​​​​​Besides, Watchmen is probably the greatest achievement in the history of the medium and you at least owe it to yourself to read it if only for historical purposes.
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majorjoe23

Alan Moore for sure. He’s my number one.

Morrison is iffy. Some stuff I love, some stuff I read and have no idea what I just looked at.

Eric F

But Animal Man is so good though.

fujishig

Yeah, I think if any writer-only is going to make my list it'll be both Moore and Morrison (I don't think Claremont makes the list, which is killing me at the moment, and I'll have to think long and hard about Ellis).

Moore for sure is a lock. Watchmen alone gives him a gigantic heads up, but you have Swamp Thing, Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow, the Killing Joke, V for Vendetta, Miracleman, Supreme, Tom Strong, Promethea, Top Ten, and other stuff I'm not even a huge fan of like League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.

Morrison might get edged out eventually but Animal Man, JLA, Batman, Doom Patrol, Seven Soldiers, All Star Superman, the Authority, the Invisibles, New X-Men is quite a resume.

Josh-da-man

Visual medium, shmisual medium.

My Mount Rushmore is Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman, Grant Morrison, and Garth Ennis.

Trevor

I’d recommend fixing this. Swamp Thing has had more quality runs than perhaps any comic in history. The Wein/Wrightson originals and Rick Veitch taking over for Moore are highlights, but the gems continue to today.

B5Erik

But, in trying to be like him, others followed his lead in not worrying about continuity and threw away several key storylines in the history of various titles. That's what I'm talking about. If you can't do what you want to do with a character and do it in continuity then create a new character and do it with that character instead. Don't throw out the history of a character like it doesn't matter.

I have been consistent in Movie Talk, TV Talk, and Comic Book Talk - I am a big fan of continuity. I'm not a big fan of radical changes, especially when they fundamentally change the character and/or events in that character's history that helped make that character who he or she is.


I'm not all that big on superhero deconstructions, in general. (Edge by Steven Grant and Gil Kane was a deconstruction, and it was OK, but I liked the art more than the theme of the deconstruction of the very idea of superheroes.)

I'm old school. I grew up reading comics in the mid 70's. I'm just not as big a fan of a lot of the more modern titles (I'm more a fan of modern comics when they seem like a clear progression from that style rather than the more modern style influenced by Moore, Frank Miller, and others). I like some of what Frank Miller did with Daredevil (which helped usher in that modern style), but I think he went too far (and I'm not a fan of his art at all). Am I wrong in assessing that Moore had a major impact on the style of comics from the 90's onward?

I knew that NOT picking Moore and explaining why would rub some people the wrong way. It certainly wasn't my intent to rub people the wrong way, but I have to be honest. He's an iconic figure that means a lot to a lot of fans. I'm just not one of those fans.

rocket1312

Most of Moore's work is outside of any sort of continuity. Unless you're precious about Supreme or Bronze Age Swamp Thing, it's not really a concern. He did very little work on mainstream characters.

I'm just surprised someone who's a fan of the medium wouldn't be interested in at least sampling the work of someone considered by many to be the greatest comics writer ever. I'd highly recommend checking out his two Superman stories. Both have been reprinted many times in different "best of" collections and are good gateway Moore stories for someone interested in classical superheroes. You may or may not like them, but they're short and you can say you've at least read something he's written before writing him off.

B5Erik

As it happens, I have the Eaglemoss edition of Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow collection.

I'll start it tonight.

fujishig

How can you be an old school 70's fan and care so much about continuity? Do you complain because Superman can fly and Batman doesn't shoot people?

Also besides that Wikipedia reference, I have a hard time citing Moore as someone who throws away continuity at a whim, let alone make him responsible for something like One More Day. I don't remember who's on your list but if you hate Moore you have to hate Gaiman too because he messed with continuity... except both did it in a way to honor the past of the characters while simultaneously building on a mythology that the earlier creators couldn't have dreamed of. Even if you absolutely HATE retcons, this is the way to do a retcon.

Trevor

Day Six Response and Wrap—Up

Alan Moore might be the only ‘just writer’ to make my list. I guess he has done Maxwell the Magic Cat and some other art. He sometimes gets a rap for rarely creating true original characters, but only ‘re-inventing’ existing stuff. I kinda see that, but it’s not like he makes what came before irrelevant. He makes everything he touches better. Swamp Thing issue 20 changed my life. Just re-read it the other day and it still chills me. Don’t particularly agree with him on how he treats his old work and the co-creators involved, and think he might be crazy, but he’s Mount Rushmore, desert island, best writers, favorites, most important, any top ten definition I can fathom.

Love a lot of Morrison’s work, but except for Animal Man and All-Star Superman none of it completely wows me. To be fair, a lot of their beloved works I’ve only partially read and are in me mountains of reading queue, so someday I might upgrade their ranking.

My list so far:
Frank Miller
Jack Kirby
Carl Barks
Alan Moore

Trevor

Day Seven Choices

Put your slippers on and grab that newspaper, it’s Strip Sunday!

Are Bill Watterson or Berkeley Breathed in your top 10?

Does this question scare you into leaving spots open for later?