Travis McClain

Then it would be especially shameful for such a thread to ever be allowed to escalate to the point of triggering a disciplinary action for just one party, wouldn't it?

VinVega

If someone has a meltdown in a thread and starts personally attacking other posters in the thread none of the in thread mods could do anything about it under the rule you're proposing.

Hokeyboy

Yeah I have zero problem with mods participating in threads. In fact I encourage it.

Travis McClain

Under my proposal, they couldn't formally punish anyone in that thread but that's not the same as not being able to do anything about it. Moderation isn't just about handing down verdicts and sentences. It's about leadership, and good leadership can often steer a thread away from the point where people say the wrong thing in the heat of the moment. [Also note: This does not mean having one's finger on the thread-locking button just waiting for the first whiff of disagreement.]

Look at the various thematic challenges we have. There's one I think every month now. I participate in about half of them regularly and I host two of them. None of our hosts, to my immediate knowledge, are moderators. Yet I can't think of any incidents since the early days of the Horror Challenge where there have been any volatile incidents.

It's not because there are so few participants in a discussion thread, because other threads that have resulted in disciplinary measures have taken place with as few, or fewer, posters.

It's not because no one has any reason to argue, because duh, this is the Internet. Hell, we spent the last two weeks of May continuing the grousing from last year's Historical Appreciation Challenge about what should or should not be allowed content.

Hosts aren't special members with any unique powers over other forum members. But challenge participants defer to and accept the host's rulings in large part because civil discourse is fostered and directed by the host throughout the challenge.

This idea that moderators only have the ability to address situations as long as they can formally punish other members is unfounded. It's leadership, not punitive power, that any site needs of its moderators.

Navinabob

Has anyone addressed the issue of a suspended person not being able to question a suspension with a PM because they are suspended? Its an odd catch-22.

Are they supposed to send a PM via another member? Is there a [email protected] or something that gets screened by an admin?

Pizza

It's easy to have 20/20 eyesight. It's also easy to judge in the same way, but when things are unrolling live in a thread, it's not always so clear where things are heading or if there is really much you can do to stop it. I feel the mods do just fine. Probably a few more eyes would help. I agree that adding a person or two who are active would help rather than to keep someone around who doesn't visit as much as they used to. I think most people who regularly visit the forums know the potential troublemakers around here and would have a better handle as to what's up. Might be worth the effort to take a yearly look at the staff to see who's active and who isn't.

dave-o

In the rare and unlikely case that every single mod from this site is participating in one thread, all at the same time, then make an exception for that situation. Problem solved.

I think it's a bit of a red herring, and the idea that a mod who gets in a heated discussion with another member should recuse themselves form any possible disciplinary actions seems rather obvious to me.

Hokeyboy

I would also like to hear the answer to this.

WallyOPD

Even in threads they're participating in, actions can escalate quickly in between the times the moderators are reading the thread. Handcuffing an active moderator from doing his or her job just because they've been a participant in the thread seems like a very bad idea.

I think in general our mods do a very good job of leading by example, but that's no guarantee that a thread won't go in a negative direction (or a couple of isolated posters in a thread taking jabs at each other).

And while the challenges may have had success in not having issues over the past few years, that could also be a function of luck (what percentage of threads actually result in issues?) and because they have a very clear focus and direction. Many discussion threads don't have that, and issues can come from the most innocuous of places. A long-time member was banned in a thread discussing the best places to get Mexican food (in what seemed like another case of consequences outweighing the infraction).

Solid Snake

Is that right? Someone was banned for asking where to get the best Mexican food? Or Wtf happened in there for that to happen?

WallyOPD

He was very vehement in his belief that the only good Mexican restaurants were chain restaurants.

RandyC

JoeDoe: "I think Taco Bell is the best place to eat. I really do"
SeitansArmy "You are full of crap, that is why you like it"

MOD in message to SeitansArmy: "Please watch your posts, that is close to a personal attack"
SeitansArmy: "Screw you. You always side with the other guy and pick on me. Bite me"
MOD: That is a week off for you.
ArmyofSeitans registers a new account.
MOD: Bans both of the accounts as a blatant violation of the forum rules.

JimFin: "wow... they banned SeitansArmy for nothing"

MODs - *sigh*

And note, this may be a good reason for some more transparency. But I have seen variations of this scenario play out many times and often the real reasons people are banned are not known or shared.

mzupeman2

That's certainly the case. People do have a very one sided approach to telling 'their side' of the story...

...but still. Still quite obvious there's larger issues at here, and honestly, it really only seems to be one or two people responsible for the outcry that's happening at the moment.

vaporware

I'm more amused that ibobi, who's been here 2 years tells everyone here how things are supposed to be. I realize its an ib brand now and all, but to really have a sense of how this community once was you should look back at everything that happened around 9/11. This was the only place during that time that I checked out. In fact, for years I was here each and every day not only keeping up with the news but with the lives of others around here.

I pop in from time to time nowadays but there hardly ever seems to be anything going on here anymore. It's not a huge secret that a group of us left for a little island somewhere quite a while back and we are a tight nit group. But this place used to be great, I looked forward to logging in each day and checking out everything that was going on.

The fun really did leave the forum...

NotThatGuy

I think it'd be a Lightning Scenario...the go between member would be electrocuted bc they attempted to bridge the gap between the Mortals and the FSMs.

Mikael79

Bring back SeitansArmy!!

Ah, but seriously folks, I think I found a new home.

TheBang

On the page that VinVega already linked:

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showgroups.php

there is an e-mail link next to every moderator's name.

ka11ima

I've read through the entire thread and several have commented on the stagnation of this site and just wanted to provide some perspective. I joined this forum in March, searching for "deals" on Disney movies and usually don't post in "other" until I get a grasp of the forum dynamic, but just reading through some threads and reactions, I was taken aback at the level of hostility some members exude when replying to a question asked politely or the amount of smart ass remarks in the "bargains" section, I fully expect it in "other/otter." That led me to seek other forums, of which I've joined and became much more active.

I still enjoy this forum and visit but also get frustrated that I'm unable to post any deals w/links due to my post-count. I understand why that rule is in place but I also don't want to start post-spamming with a whole lot of nothing that doesn't contribute to a thread. And frankly, the threads I do want to post to, in "other" have been laden with so much drama that I generally just "opt-out" of participating lest I be pulled into the black hole of circular arguments and insults.

Most users have been welcoming, not only to me, but other members as well, unfortunately there are other users that choose to act so aggressively nasty that the aftertaste overshadows the positive. I'm not saying the answer is to sing Kumbayah but I think what happens is that the forum vets are so used to seeing "X" member's insulting rants that it becomes business as usual, while those new to the site question if this forum is the right fit. Sometimes, the ones who shout the loudest, using the most profane language are the ones that ultimately leave a lasting impression, for better or worse.

On-topic, I know it will probably never be implemented, but I would like to second the suggestion that "if the banned/suspended forum member agrees to full disclosure of what post(s) resulted in their "punishment" it should be allowed in a locked thread." I also second that a 3 month suspension is akin to a ban, the Internet is way too vast for someone to wait that long before they find another pasture to graze. Even worse, once the ban is lifted, they can come back - only to promote this "other great site" they found during the overly long suspension. It may not happen publicly but maybe via PM, and if successful it dominoes, resulting in a mass exodus.

TomOpus

Hey, who asked YOU??


Just kidding


We appreciate hearing a well-thoughtout reply from someone who isn't so entrenched in the history of this site. Always good to get some outside perspective.

Chrisedge

One forum I belong to, and I recommended doing the same here, was to have a locked thread that explains banned/suspended members and what action was done. Like:

That way you could see what they did, and how long they were suspended for. Agree that 3 months is too long in online world. I would just leave and not come back.

dave-o

The funny thing is that it seems that not contacting posters about their suspensions seems to be the rule not the exception. Oh well, it seems it may be too late anyways...

CRM114

That's my point. Examples are being sent and summarily ignored. Acts like calling people names and passive aggressive personal attacks. See below:

It appears the members who are liked by the mods are given passes and others are not.

Hell, I even have mods post publicly something rude about my beliefs or posting style. It's bad enough when members get away with these types of borderline attacks. And I'm not calling for bans but for a mod to step in once in a while and interject one of those mod italicized warnings. But that would mean a mod would need to warn another mod in some cases.

mzupeman2

So, despite all the discussion in this thread, it seems that people are still being outright banned WITHOUT any notice as to why.

Wonderful.

ibobi

I do not think that's happening. Example?

At any rate, this is still in discussion; recommendations will take a few days to put into place, meanwhile I don't think anyone's being suspended without notification, and certainly not without cause.

Rex Power Colt-Robot Man

What notification was sent to G! before he was suspended? The thread got deleted so if there was a Admin note in there no one saw it. Sounds like suspension without notification to me.