One & Only HD Player/Software Bargains Thread
05-31-07, 10:08 AM
#503
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Originally Posted by Paul Arnette
Toshiba is so hell-bent on driving down the cost of their players that they have effectively removed any margin another manufacturer would hope to see from producing an HD DVD player. So, it really isn't a wonder to me that Toshiba continues to be the only HD DVD manufacturer regardless of market penetration or catalog.
Moreover, Chinese manufacturers are coming. Japanese manufacturers will come along soon enough.
Panasonic makes inexpensive dvd players sold in Walmart. They'll make hd-dvd players too, when the cost of components makes it possible.
And it won't be long. There is really very little difference between a dvd player and an hd-dvd player. Once the engineering costs are recovered, manufacturing is cheap.
05-31-07, 12:28 PM
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Low prices are great, sure, but a lot of you are taking a short-term view of things. I'm just trying to explain why there aren't any other choices for manufacturers of HD DVD players and that a lack of choice is a negative result of Toshiba eliminating the margins on those players.
05-31-07, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul Arnette
Low prices are great, sure, but a lot of you are taking a short-term view of things. I'm just trying to explain why there aren't any other choices for manufacturers of HD DVD players and that a lack of choice is a negative result of Toshiba eliminating the margins on those players.
Who's saying they're eliminating the profit margins? Has that been reported somewhere credible? If Toshiba were losing money on each player sold -- like Sony with the PS3 -- then I could see your point.
05-31-07, 03:48 PM
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If they're lowering the price, then, by that act's very nature, they are reducing the previous profit margin? Are they selling them at a loss? I don't know. It doesn't matter. That wasn't what I said or implied.
What I said was they are lowering the margin, and you can't argue with that unless you know they've cut their costs too. You can argue that the players weren't selling at the previous price so that margin wouldn't have been realized, or you can argue that the lowered margin is still 'good enough' for Toshiba. But my contention wasn't whether the margin was enough for Toshiba, it was whether or not it was good enough for other manufacturers. Since there aren't any other ones, I'm going to continue to think the answer to that is 'no'.
What I said was they are lowering the margin, and you can't argue with that unless you know they've cut their costs too. You can argue that the players weren't selling at the previous price so that margin wouldn't have been realized, or you can argue that the lowered margin is still 'good enough' for Toshiba. But my contention wasn't whether the margin was enough for Toshiba, it was whether or not it was good enough for other manufacturers. Since there aren't any other ones, I'm going to continue to think the answer to that is 'no'.
Last edited by Paul Arnette; 05-31-07 at 03:51 PM.
05-31-07, 05:57 PM
#508
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DeepDiscount.com 20% Off Sale June 1 - June 17th
Use coupon code: DVDTALK
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?t=502144
Use coupon code: DVDTALK
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?t=502144
05-31-07, 06:28 PM
#509
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally Posted by Paul Arnette
Low prices are great, sure, but a lot of you are taking a short-term view of things. I'm just trying to explain why there aren't any other choices for manufacturers of HD DVD players and that a lack of choice is a negative result of Toshiba eliminating the margins on those players.
Also, it's been reported (by Toshiba) that the recent price drop resulted in as much as a 10-fold increase in player sales at some retailers. It's obvious that Toshiba wants to establish that there is a market for HD-DVD at an attractive price point.
I can't for the life of me see how this is a bad thing, short-term, nor long-term.
05-31-07, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul Arnette
If they're lowering the price, then, by that act's very nature, they are reducing the previous profit margin? Are they selling them at a loss? I don't know. It doesn't matter. That wasn't what I said or implied.
What I said was they are lowering the margin, and you can't argue with that unless you know they've cut their costs too. You can argue that the players weren't selling at the previous price so that margin wouldn't have been realized, or you can argue that the lowered margin is still 'good enough' for Toshiba. But my contention wasn't whether the margin was enough for Toshiba, it was whether or not it was good enough for other manufacturers. Since there aren't any other ones, I'm going to continue to think the answer to that is 'no'.
What I said was they are lowering the margin, and you can't argue with that unless you know they've cut their costs too. You can argue that the players weren't selling at the previous price so that margin wouldn't have been realized, or you can argue that the lowered margin is still 'good enough' for Toshiba. But my contention wasn't whether the margin was enough for Toshiba, it was whether or not it was good enough for other manufacturers. Since there aren't any other ones, I'm going to continue to think the answer to that is 'no'.
Paul -- I really don't want to make enemies. Honest. I think I might've come across as a bit contentious in my last post, and I don't want to do that. I think the question you raise is legitimate and that I'm in the same boat you are -- I don't know. And in the larger scheme of things, it really doesn't matter. I don't mean to put words in your mouth.
My perception of the whole thing is that Toshiba is just doing what they've been doing all along: they're delivering a high quality product while totally undercutting the competition. They are apparently confident that they can afford to do it, and it's gaining them some very significant ground.
I think what Lord Rick has been saying is totally accurate; as manufacturing costs drop, more and more manufacturers are going to start building HD DVD players. I think these price drops represent just that: the manufacturing cost dropping.
06-01-07, 07:22 AM
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applesandrice and Lord Rick,
No problem, guys. I don't have any hard feelings. I just didn't think my point has getting across, and all that was was providing an explanation as to why they're currently aren't any other manufacturers of HD DVD players.
With respect to other manufacturers getting into the game due to costs dropping, you also have to realize that these new manufactuerers have infrastructures to set up, etc. But I think the real barrier is adoption. It sure seems like everybody here (DVD Talk, HTF, AVS, etc.) is buying in, but we represent a very tiny portion of the consumer base. All you have to do is look to the numbers of units the Pirates and Matrix sold last week to get an idea of how far off mass adoption really is.
Anyway, on the later subject we'll just have to agree to disagree for now.
Again, no hard feelings here, and I hope there are none on your end as well. Afterall, this is a hobby, and it is supposed to be fun. There are much more important things in life to get worked up over.
Now back to your regularly scheduled HD bargains....
:cricketschirping:
No problem, guys. I don't have any hard feelings. I just didn't think my point has getting across, and all that was was providing an explanation as to why they're currently aren't any other manufacturers of HD DVD players.
With respect to other manufacturers getting into the game due to costs dropping, you also have to realize that these new manufactuerers have infrastructures to set up, etc. But I think the real barrier is adoption. It sure seems like everybody here (DVD Talk, HTF, AVS, etc.) is buying in, but we represent a very tiny portion of the consumer base. All you have to do is look to the numbers of units the Pirates and Matrix sold last week to get an idea of how far off mass adoption really is.
Anyway, on the later subject we'll just have to agree to disagree for now.
Again, no hard feelings here, and I hope there are none on your end as well. Afterall, this is a hobby, and it is supposed to be fun. There are much more important things in life to get worked up over.Now back to your regularly scheduled HD bargains....
:cricketschirping:
06-01-07, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by applesandrice
Paul -- I really don't want to make enemies. Honest. I think I might've come across as a bit contentious in my last post, and I don't want to do that. I think the question you raise is legitimate and that I'm in the same boat you are -- I don't know. And in the larger scheme of things, it really doesn't matter. I don't mean to put words in your mouth.
My perception of the whole thing is that Toshiba is just doing what they've been doing all along: they're delivering a high quality product while totally undercutting the competition. They are apparently confident that they can afford to do it, and it's gaining them some very significant ground.
I think what Lord Rick has been saying is totally accurate; as manufacturing costs drop, more and more manufacturers are going to start building HD DVD players. I think these price drops represent just that: the manufacturing cost dropping.
My perception of the whole thing is that Toshiba is just doing what they've been doing all along: they're delivering a high quality product while totally undercutting the competition. They are apparently confident that they can afford to do it, and it's gaining them some very significant ground.
I think what Lord Rick has been saying is totally accurate; as manufacturing costs drop, more and more manufacturers are going to start building HD DVD players. I think these price drops represent just that: the manufacturing cost dropping.
06-01-07, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
Damn, I wish there was a Fry's around here. Why are they always so much cheaper than everyone else?
06-01-07, 10:33 AM
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Don't bother. Paul's recent posts here show that he has a clear BD bias that he wears on his sleeve.
The only thing I'm wearing on my sleeve is that I'd like to have a choice in what hardware I buy. Clearly, I'm crazy.
Last edited by Paul Arnette; 06-01-07 at 10:38 AM.
06-01-07, 10:38 AM
#517
Originally Posted by gimmepilotwings
Why not just order it at Buy.com using the GCO? I just did, and bought it for $10.39 shipped. There are a TON of HDDVD for that price.
06-01-07, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by gimmepilotwings
Why not just order it at Buy.com using the GCO? I just did, and bought it for $10.39 shipped. There are a TON of HDDVD for that price.
06-01-07, 01:59 PM
#519
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Originally Posted by gimmepilotwings
Why not just order it at Buy.com using the GCO? I just did, and bought it for $10.39 shipped. There are a TON of HDDVD for that price.
06-01-07, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by DthRdrX
Are there still people using the GCU more than once?
06-01-07, 05:54 PM
#522
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Wow... Almost 200 HD DVD movies at $20 or less in the HD DVD sale. Browsing the best sellers, Blu-Ray seemed to have similar pricing so there should be plenty for everyone.
06-04-07, 07:24 AM
#523
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Conn's B&M stores in Texas and Louisiana have the A2 for $199 out the door!!!!
Discussion at AVS:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=856268
Discussion at AVS:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=856268
06-04-07, 10:10 AM
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http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?t=502470
Columbia House plans to begin carrying both Blu-ray and HD DVD discs in the fall of 2007.
Columbia House plans to begin carrying both Blu-ray and HD DVD discs in the fall of 2007.
Last edited by fryinpan1; 06-04-07 at 10:55 AM.