Warner, New Line, Paramount, Universal ... The Studios/Networks Thread - Part 2
01-08-08, 08:52 AM
#276
DVD Talk Hero
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Hail to the Redskins!
Posts: 25,295
Likes: 0
Received 49 Likes
on
38 Posts
Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet
No, no, no. The digital switchover has nothing to do with HD.
01-08-08, 08:52 AM
#277
DVD Talk Hero
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Hail to the Redskins!
Posts: 25,295
Likes: 0
Received 49 Likes
on
38 Posts
Originally Posted by jiggawhat
I keep seeing the same tired arguments again and again here. I think the majority of us know that neither BD nor HD-DVD would ever supplant DVD. If HD-DVD won over WB, they still wouldn't be able to take over DVD. It's just not going to happen and I'll give you two reasons: 1) Both formats were released way too soon and 2) Not enough of an upgrade over the predecessor.
Originally Posted by jiggawhat
The first VHS was released in 1976 and DVD around 1997, which is 21 year difference. In contrast, DVD to the HD-DVD was only 9 years. Now this is a big hurdle in the sense because people had built up huge collections before migrating over to DVD. I'm not going to go into why DVD beat VHS because that's obvious, but is there anything other than a difference in audio or video quality that would compel one to upgrade? Interactivity who cares? How many of the J6Ps watch extras on their discs? Do you think it's going to be any different to either HD format? Only the cinephile cares about these things, not the masses.
The masses care about the things they are educated on. Don't kid yourself and think that most people didn't see much of a difference between VHS and DVD at the outset either. They asked the SAME QUESTIONS you bring up now. Attitudes will change, just like the did with DVD.
Originally Posted by jiggawhat
Who in their right minds are going to replace their 1000+ collection let alone a 100+ DVD collection. I will not I know most of you here won't. The soccer moms damn sure won't. A lot of movies just don't offer enough of a difference to be worth the trouble or expenditure to upgrade. Plus the fact that most studios aren't willing to foot the bill to remaster titles like Warner does.
Originally Posted by jiggawhat
I think firmware upgradability on a player is one of the worst things to happen in consumer electronics because it serves as a crutch for companies to release a product that is buggy or incomplete and expect people to upgrade it. Most people don't even know how to install a driver on a computer and giving them the responsibility to have to possibly brick their player is ridiculous. Add all those features beforehand and test them, don't do it after the fact. People who own 360s know this all too well when tons of em were bricked after one of their seasonal updates. Both HD and BD players have had to have numerous firmware updates to fix problems. This is why I keep saying both these formats were rushed out and used the consumer for QC which is terrible.
Originally Posted by jiggawhat
Now to people who think pricing on players is going to go up now that Toshiba is dead, all of you are crazy. Exactly the opposite will happen. More companies we feel confident that their looks to be a clear winner, after all, who wants to release a player on a format that could be dead? I think that could be a reason more people didn't join Toshiba in releasing players. Pricing is only going to decline, but as with DVD, you're going to have the low, mid, and high end segments. Look at Denon, they still have a fucking $3,800 player out. Come on Denon, no player is worth that much. We are only going into the second year of these players and both are incredibly cheap. Don't worry as we will have have a $99 dollar BD player by the end of the year mark my words.
Last edited by DVD Josh; 01-08-08 at 09:42 AM.
01-08-08, 09:09 AM
#278
DVD Talk Hero
Originally Posted by DVD Josh
I knwo that and that's not what I meant. The digital switchover will leave many people in need of a new TV, and many will replace old ones with HDTV models. Not to mention that thanks to the government's piss poor education of the public on this, many people now think they NEED an HDTV in 2009.
01-08-08, 09:12 AM
#279
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 9,334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
While true VHS DEBUTED in 1976, it did not become the standard format until 1990.
01-08-08, 09:18 AM
#280
DVD Talk Hero
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Hail to the Redskins!
Posts: 25,295
Likes: 0
Received 49 Likes
on
38 Posts
Originally Posted by chanster
Thats just false. VCRs were the consumer standard by the early 1980's.
But my other points remain true. Commercially affordable VHS tapes were not available until the early 90s.
01-08-08, 09:32 AM
#282
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 9,334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Beta may have existed, but VCR was the clear standard by the early 1980's. To say otherwise is false.
And the point with "commercially affordable VHS tapes" has nothing to do with the standard. Studios at that point were selling VHS tapes at "rent through" not sale pricing. I remember my buddy being the biggest Aliens freak out there and he had to have his mom pay something like $86 bucks or so for a new VHS copy through Blockbuster.
I will go out on a limb and say the average consumer did not have a large VHS collection. They were relatively big and they wore out. Plus you could record anything you wanted on pay channels and most everything was cropped anyway to fit a 4:3 screen.
I'm sure there were a lot of people out here with large VHS collections, but the idea of movie collecting was pretty out there.
And the point with "commercially affordable VHS tapes" has nothing to do with the standard. Studios at that point were selling VHS tapes at "rent through" not sale pricing. I remember my buddy being the biggest Aliens freak out there and he had to have his mom pay something like $86 bucks or so for a new VHS copy through Blockbuster.
I will go out on a limb and say the average consumer did not have a large VHS collection. They were relatively big and they wore out. Plus you could record anything you wanted on pay channels and most everything was cropped anyway to fit a 4:3 screen.
I'm sure there were a lot of people out here with large VHS collections, but the idea of movie collecting was pretty out there.
01-08-08, 09:33 AM
#283
Originally Posted by chanster
Thats just false. VCRs were the consumer standard by the early 1980's.
Today, VHS decks are still very useful for recording analog cable TV shows (and will continue to do so since analog cable won't be going away soon--the change to digital broadcasting affects only over-air broadcasts).
But getting back on topic,
I think we need to watch how fast Warner starts to announce the release of Blu-ray only titles. I can see titles like the high-definition version of the Lord of the Rings movies and The Golden Compass going Blu-ray only when they are released.
01-08-08, 09:33 AM
#284
DVD Talk Hero
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Hail to the Redskins!
Posts: 25,295
Likes: 0
Received 49 Likes
on
38 Posts
Originally Posted by chanster
Beta may have existed, but VCR was the clear standard by the early 1980's. To say otherwise is false.
And the point with "commercially affordable VHS tapes" has nothing to do with the standard. Studios at that point were selling VHS tapes at "rent through" not sale pricing. I remember my buddy being the biggest Aliens freak out there and he had to have his mom pay something like $86 bucks or so for a new VHS copy through Blockbuster.
And the point with "commercially affordable VHS tapes" has nothing to do with the standard. Studios at that point were selling VHS tapes at "rent through" not sale pricing. I remember my buddy being the biggest Aliens freak out there and he had to have his mom pay something like $86 bucks or so for a new VHS copy through Blockbuster.
But to say that affordable tapes have nothing to do with the standard is just silly. Jigga's point was about purchasing and collection habits. That goes straight to that.
01-08-08, 09:37 AM
#285
DVD Talk Hero
Originally Posted by DVD Josh
I used information from WIKI and clearly was incorrect.
But to say that affordable tapes have nothing to do with the standard is just silly. Jigga's point was about purchasing and collection habits. That goes straight to that.
But to say that affordable tapes have nothing to do with the standard is just silly. Jigga's point was about purchasing and collection habits. That goes straight to that.
01-08-08, 09:41 AM
#286
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 9,334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually my post was wrong, people had a large VHS taped collection, but not a large paid for VHS collection. So DVD (for me as well) was a first time purchase. Which is what the problem is...people have been buying DVDs up through and including the present. You gotta convince them to dump that stuff and start over with HD media of any sort.
And when I mean large VHS collection, I mean you could fit 3 movies on one VHS . Sure the quality wasn't great, but it hardly made a difference. One of my favorite things my grandmother used to send me were VHS tapes with stuff taped from HBO. I loved that stuff. One VHS had all kinds of goodies on it, Goonies, Empire Strikes Back, that kind of stuff.
I'm sure cinephiles will rebuy stuff and all that, I'm not so sure the masses will..including myself. even when HD DVD was a viable format, I was cherry picking both new releases and catalog titles. Honestly, the current new releases lately haven't appealed to me as much as catalog stuff.
And when I mean large VHS collection, I mean you could fit 3 movies on one VHS . Sure the quality wasn't great, but it hardly made a difference. One of my favorite things my grandmother used to send me were VHS tapes with stuff taped from HBO. I loved that stuff. One VHS had all kinds of goodies on it, Goonies, Empire Strikes Back, that kind of stuff.
I'm sure cinephiles will rebuy stuff and all that, I'm not so sure the masses will..including myself. even when HD DVD was a viable format, I was cherry picking both new releases and catalog titles. Honestly, the current new releases lately haven't appealed to me as much as catalog stuff.
Last edited by chanster; 01-08-08 at 09:45 AM.
01-08-08, 09:42 AM
#287
DVD Talk Legend
There were some affordable tapes though. I remember buying E.T. and Cinderella in 1988. There were plenty available at sell-through prices; they just weren't the new releases.
However, it is true that people weren't buying nearly as many as they would buy DVDs.
However, it is true that people weren't buying nearly as many as they would buy DVDs.
01-08-08, 09:43 AM
#288
DVD Talk Hero
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Hail to the Redskins!
Posts: 25,295
Likes: 0
Received 49 Likes
on
38 Posts
Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet
Before DVD the concept of amassing a movie collection was virtually unknown to the general public, and film buffs were collecting laserdiscs, not VHS tapes.
01-08-08, 09:44 AM
#289
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 9,334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Drexl
There were some affordable tapes though. I remember buying E.T. and Cinderella in 1988. There were plenty available at sell-through prices; they just weren't the new releases.
However, it is true that people weren't buying nearly as many as they would buy DVDs.
However, it is true that people weren't buying nearly as many as they would buy DVDs.
01-08-08, 09:45 AM
#290
DVD Talk Special Edition
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Little Rock
Posts: 1,462
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet
Why? The digital switchover only affects people watching OTA analog TV. Who are the people most likely to be watching that? Limited incomes, older people, and people that don't care very much about television. And you think they're going to run out and buy an HDTV? They'll get a converter box and be done with it.
01-08-08, 09:55 AM
#291
MaxPower1987, who is a an insider at blu-ray.com, says that Paramount needs 2 things to happen to release on BD:
1. WB goes BD exclusive (done)
2. Buyout their contract with Toshiba, which he says is $50 million (DreamWorks received $100 million in cash/incentives).
He says they are comparing what the buyout will cost vs how much they could make by releasing on BD now.
1. WB goes BD exclusive (done)
2. Buyout their contract with Toshiba, which he says is $50 million (DreamWorks received $100 million in cash/incentives).
He says they are comparing what the buyout will cost vs how much they could make by releasing on BD now.
01-08-08, 10:02 AM
#292
DVD Talk Hero
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Hail to the Redskins!
Posts: 25,295
Likes: 0
Received 49 Likes
on
38 Posts
Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
MaxPower1987, who is a an insider at blu-ray.com, says that Paramount needs 2 things to happen to release on BD:
1. WB goes BD exclusive (done)
2. Buyout their contract with Toshiba, which he says is $50 million (DreamWorks received $100 million in cash/incentives).
He says they are comparing what the buyout will cost vs how much they could make by releasing on BD now.
1. WB goes BD exclusive (done)
2. Buyout their contract with Toshiba, which he says is $50 million (DreamWorks received $100 million in cash/incentives).
He says they are comparing what the buyout will cost vs how much they could make by releasing on BD now.
01-08-08, 10:16 AM
#294
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 4,582
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by DVD Josh
Paramount ain't' going to make $50M on BD right now. However, holiday season 08 is a different matter.
01-08-08, 10:17 AM
#295
Suspended
Originally Posted by chanster
If its $50 million buyout, I'm guessing the business decision would be to wait and not release any HD media until the deal expires.
01-08-08, 10:18 AM
#296
Suspended
Originally Posted by Drexl
There were some affordable tapes though. I remember buying E.T. and Cinderella in 1988. There were plenty available at sell-through prices; they just weren't the new releases.
However, it is true that people weren't buying nearly as many as they would buy DVDs.
However, it is true that people weren't buying nearly as many as they would buy DVDs.
01-08-08, 01:32 PM
#297
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
Wasn't the E.T. tape green in some places (towards the top)? Freaked me out as a kid.
01-08-08, 01:38 PM
#298
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally Posted by Travis Bickle
Just sharing....
HD DVD Fallout Could Create Marketing Nightmare
by Laurie Sullivan, Tuesday, Jan 8, 2008 5:00 AM ET
...."Blu-ray recorders record 30% more information than HD DVD, and they always will," .......the players with recorders selling in Japan today will move into the U.S. market in 2009......"Consumers are building an incredible library of movies, and when Blu-ray recorders come to the United States, those who bought HD DVD players will want to know why the salesperson didn't tell them."
HD DVD Fallout Could Create Marketing Nightmare
by Laurie Sullivan, Tuesday, Jan 8, 2008 5:00 AM ET
...."Blu-ray recorders record 30% more information than HD DVD, and they always will," .......the players with recorders selling in Japan today will move into the U.S. market in 2009......"Consumers are building an incredible library of movies, and when Blu-ray recorders come to the United States, those who bought HD DVD players will want to know why the salesperson didn't tell them."
01-08-08, 01:55 PM
#299
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by BuckNaked2k
Did anyone else catch this? What the hell is this guy implying?? That we'll be able to burn our own copies of Blu-ray movies with a BD recorder???
01-08-08, 01:57 PM
#300
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,389
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by BuckNaked2k
Did anyone else catch this? What the hell is this guy implying?? That we'll be able to burn our own copies of Blu-ray movies with a BD recorder???
I doubt it would be any different from Toshiba.
