bunkaroo

I feel like telling Paramount to "shit or get off the pot".

They are so frickin' wishy-washy.

They say they continue to "support" HD DVD, which can mean anything. It could mean exclusively or non-exclusively.

They're making no new announcements. According to HiDefDigest's release list, they only have 4 Paramount/DW titles in the new year listed, and that includes tomorrow's Zodiac (the other three are Bee Movie, Things We Lost In The Fire and Into The Wild).

With the exception of Bee Movie, none of these will likely even make the top 10 for their respective Nielsen weeks.

How is that supporting the format?

EDIT: I missed Beowulf, which should be a bigger release at least.

Drexl

Amen. They've already come down to half the price or less than what they cost at launch, and that was only a year and a half ago. So what if there are cheap off-brand DVD players? There were cheap VCRs, and that didn't stop DVD from gradually becoming popular. The key word there is "gradually." People seem to think the process has to be accelerated, even though there are more obstacles this time (need for an HDTV, consumer apathy).

chanster

Of course they have they have to say they support it, up until the moment they decide to invoke the "get out of HD DVD clause" or just say fuck it, we are going to break the contract and deal with possible litigation.

dsa_shea

The grapes have once again soured in this thread. People are now justifying that they don't have a desire for HD anymore or these "ridiculous" prices they are being asked to pay for Blu-Ray equipment. If you don't want to continue to enjoy HD then fine but please stop trying to persuade the rest of us who are ok with what has happened to go along with your plan. I still contend that only the cheapest, first generation HD-Dvd players enjoyed a substantial advantage over the price of the Blu-Ray players on the market. I paid 350 plus tax for my A-30 at the very end of September and that was with a 10% off purchase coupon. Please stop with the sadness already. Wait a few months to see what the Blu-Ray camp does before you totally write them off unless you just "hate Sony".

Mr. Cinema

I don't think Paramount will be releasing any catalog titles. Most likely day & date only. I hope they do have an out clause in their deal with Toshiba. I can't imagine they don't.

I just find it interesting that they give such a vague response. They didn't say "we will continue to exclusively support HD DVD". They left out "exclusive" and did not mention anything about not supporting BD.

Clearly the WB move is the reason they aren't announcing anything at CES, which I'm sure they were prepared to do. If you're excited about supporting HD DVD and think it will win out, then you probably would announce your titles.

chanster

Last time I checked this wasn't a "Everyone buy Blu now" thread. Its not about "grapes" Blu Ray player prices seem to be on the way down, which is I am waiting to next holiday season before I jump on the Blu Ray bandwagon. Give me a $200-$250 1.1. player with an IR remote and I'm all set.

dsa_shea

This never was an "everybody buy Blu now thread". But it has become a borderline 100 reasons to no longer support HD thread simply because of what has happened over the last few days. Now that it appears that there no longer is a war people are now pointing out their sudden lack of desire of HD and trying to be persuasive in making others still feel uncomfortable in spending their money on Blu-Ray players based on the supposedly "ridiculous prices" of the players.

heliosten

He didn't say that they don't see the difference, he said that it just isn't that big of a deal considering the cost involved. That is exactly the same thing I run into. Heck, I still won't pay more than $9.99 for a SD DVD much less what they are wanting for HDC.

kvrdave

After reading the differences for the BD 1.1 and 2.0, I think we may be screwed for HD ever becoming THE format that everyone uses. I remember people talking about how having BD and HD-DVD was "confusing" for consumers and how they wouldn't buy in. That may be true, but I think it is overplayed. But suppose it is true....now they will go into Best Buy or some other place and see a cheap player that they finally might buy to get into High Def, but they find out that it won't do everything because it is 1.1. But if they want to fork over more money (which they didn't want to do to begin with), they can get into 2.0. But what if they come out with a new spec? You can tell them that they won't, but they already have before.

So the idea that people were waiting for one format is now complicated by people waiting for the BD specs to quit changing.

That was my biggest problem with Sony from the begining. They came out before BD was ready (though they had to so that they didn't get too far behind), and now have a history of upgrades. While those upgrades won't make your old player quit working, consumers will be reluctant to jump in, imo.

But I will enjoy what I have.

MrDs10e

Fine, WM has a $40 upconverting DVD player. and of course, they don't play Blu-ray. My whole point is constrating the choice people have of a Blu-ray player or not.

That is a limb. I've purchased many dirt cheap electronics that lasted like a champ, and many expensive ones that broke. Price does always not correlate directly to quality, despite what those who sell expensive things always want you to think.

Again, there is no comparison. DVD was a HUGE leap, very noticeable to nearly 100% of people. Not only a leap in PQ, but in usability (no rewinding/fast forwarding, jump instantly to where you want to be, special features), durability (last years), and convenience (you can carry 10 or 20 in a small handheld case). BD is offering only ONE (well, one and half since BD is more durable than DVD in theory) of those many advatages: picture quality. And while NUMERICALLY, the quality jump might be greater than VHS to DVD, in the real world, to 95% of observers, it is much smaller.

But again, if DVD player prices had stayed $400-500, then it would have had trouble catching on. DVD did not become mainstream until the prices came down. Blu-ray will have even MORE of a problem with these prices because they are not offering as big a jump over the alternative as DVD was, and of course, in the fast moving world we live in, BD doesn't have 5 years to mainstream its prices like DVD and other prior technologies might have had. Something else will make it obsolete before then.

LOL. REALLY? Of course, that's obvious. EVERY BUSINESS is "actually trying to make money". And consumers are trying to save money, and can only spend what they have. A sale occurs when the two meet. If the BDA consortium cannot figure out a way to manufacture their players at prices people can afford and are willing to pay, then that is THEIR problem, and they will fail as an enterprise. That's Business 101. It is incredibly snobbish to think that we should all pay whatever a BD player costs because they are "trying to make money". If consumers did not exert price pressure on vendors, the economy would not function.

Trevor

Seriously dude, he was trying to be helpful. Thank him. His options were great ones for you or the thousands of people in a similar situation. His, and all of our, posts are not just for you, even if quoting or directed to you.

Thanks for the opinion Chanster, good advice. I'm on the fence still, but leaning towards returning everything and starting fresh with BR if and when it really takes off.

Supermallet

BD player prices are going down, and will continue to go down. As I said in the last thread, we will eventually see a marketplace for BD that's very similar to what we have with DVD: A mix of low end, mid end, and high end players. It's silly to expect that the prices of players today will be the prices of players for all time.

chanster

I'm not trying to be sway anybody one or another. Furthermore, I'm not trying to make anyone feel uncomfortable about their purchase. People get value of their stuff in their own way. I'm sure there are people that feel they have gotten $1,000 worth for their 1.0 Blu Ray player. Great for them.

I'm stating my reasons why I had HD DVD and won't buy Blu Ray until players come down in price. So yeah I guess I'm jumping out of the HD game until 1.1. spec players hit $200-$250, which is EXACTLY the same thing I did for HD DVD players...so my position has never changed.

Harry Lime

Wow! and I thought Fox was bad. It may be that Paramount can't get out of their contract so they don't want spend money releasing films on a format less and less people are gonna buy.

QuePaso

I do not see the big issue with the profiles. There is no more Profile 1.0 other then the 1st gen players which will be soon gone and never show up again. There is a VERY small amount of them in the first place, most will end up in bedrooms in a year or 2, so they really do not matter in the long run, right now they get the job done however for watching movies.

Profile 1.1 is the FINAL format for blu-ray. I believe everyone knows by now that 1.1 is the only type of blu-ray player that can come out anyway, and 2.0 is completely optional. The only difference from 1.1 and 2.0 is Network connection and storage room to store the network files. So a person walks into the store and is looking at the various blu-ray players. She asks the guy in the blue shirt what is the difference from these 2 panasonic blu-ray players, why is one 100 dollars more. He lets her know that the more expensive one has a ethernet port in case she wanted to try the online features on certain discs. Then she can decide if she wants it or not, and if she doesnt, she can buy the cheaper one and not be forced into buying something she does not need.

Honestly, its either: 1.1 Minimum or a 2.0 player from here on out. There is nothing confusing about it. IMO, of course.

Brian T

You summed up so much of how I feel on this subject in just these three paragraphs. I generally only visit this website to discuss the occasional film. I'm a distinctly second- or maybe even third-tier techie, so I generally stay out of these threads.

But I'm a Joe Public. And I think you've hit the nail on the head for many of my kind.

I don't have a high-definition player.

I don't have a plasma or LCD television.

I do have nearly 2000 regular DVDs, the still-evolving result of over 25 years of movie appreciation, as well as a large (enough) TV, and a full-blown surround system with which to enjoy them.

But the movies come first; the "stories" your friends mention.

I seriously doubt I'll upgrade even 10 percent of this collection because the upconverting feature everyone talks about sounds like it'll be just dandy for me to enjoy at least 90% of it as is.

I won't pay $200 for a Blu-Ray player - I never payed that much for a standard DVD player after my first one in 1997 (I was an early adopter then) - but I know I'll get one eventually, and I'm more than happy to wait until they come down under $150, maybe even less, which they will. I don't have to have one this year, so I don't really care how fast they lower the prices.

Literally the night before this big Warner Brothers to-do, I decided to treat myself to four Blu-Ray discs in the Buy One Get One sale at Amazon. Not sure why I felt so comfortable doing that, outside of the price, since I don't even have a player and I had no inkling of where this "war" was headed. They're all upgrades, all recognized "classics" both in one genre or another and in my own personal experience. I also purchased the 5-disc BLADE RUNNER Blu-Ray edition late last year.

Who knows, maybe I just prefer the colour of the cases.

But those five will be it for now. By far most of the films I truly enjoy, and those which comprise the vast majority of my standard DVD collection (Hong Kong and Asian movies galore, old B-movies and drive-in stuff, documentaries) won't all be making the transition to high-definition any time soon, and even if they did, the increase in quality to these Joe Public eyes will not be enough to justify replacing them when what I've got will do. I've seen side-by-side comparisons (proper HD versus upconverted). I can spot the difference, but just barely in most cases. And I'm not worried. Ninjas and Triads and Girls With Guns, as well as Space Maidens and Skid Row Slashers and Giallo Vixens, are still gonna look good either way, especially in my mind's eye.

I still buy Hong Kong VCDs and have nearly 400 of them safely stored away. The stories don't change.

Sdallnct

But not the quality of the A3. I have just bought an A3 that I could return, but to what end? The A3 cost me $125 out the door. Should I return it for an Oppo at $200 and still need a BD player down the road? Or should I send it back and get a $50 crappy up converting player?

Nope, I keeping it. And will be happy it with. It is an excellent up converting DVD player. Sure if I had just paid $400 for one, might be a different tune. But at $125 you can ignore the fact it plays HD and it is still a bargain!

MrDs10e

You're right, of course, but I think the question is, HOW FAST and HOW MUCH will the prices come down, and will that be enough? Blu-ray would not at all be the first product/venture to fail because it priced itself out of the market. Happens all the time. There will always be some people willing to pay $1,000 for a BD player (heck, there are still some $1,000 DVD players!). If BD takes TOO long to get those low end $199 players on the market, then it might be too little too late, and the venture COULD fail because of player prices were not low enough to get the critical mass needed to move the software. If I were running Sony/the BDA consortium, my goal would be to get a BD player in 40 million homes as soon as possible, even if it costs a few billion. I think they will make more money by doing that and then selling software, than they will by slowly trickling player prices downward, and having people bite a few thousand at a time with each $20 price drop. The BD consortium has too much cash invested in BD, and too competitive a market, to try to mimic the slow process by which DVD became mainstream. Even though it has only been about 12 years since DVD hit the market, it is much faster moving world today than it was then. That's my two cents, anyway.

Chrisedge

Comparing even a $40 upscaling unit to either a PS3 or a HD DVD player is like saying a Scion and a Porsche both can do 55 mph, so there is no reason to buy the Porsche.

Sdallnct

I agree with you, but don't think it will happen as fast now that HD is "gone".

However, I don't think it is just the price of players. You can give the player away but if you still charge $25 per title, I think you are in trouble. Kind of like Polaroid. You can sell the camera for $25 but if it cost $12 for a 10pk of film you are in trouble.

I don't mind spending say $200 or even $250 on a decent BD player. But I won't do it till I'm sure we will continue to be able to by BD movies for $10-$15 per title. I think we are going to see a lot less sales for BD titles and they will be more in the $25 range. But could be wrong.

Harry Lime

Dunno if you guys have seen this....



Its been reported on different sites that the HDDVD booth is all but empty...

darkside

Comparing a $40 DVD player to even a low end Denon is the same thing. Sticking with DVD is one thing, but at least try to get something out of them.

bunkaroo

I have a feeling the picture taker farted by the HD DVD booth to clear it out before he snapped the pic...

Seriously though - that is both funny and sad. I had to save this pic just to have for posterity.

Of course, to be fair, Toshiba does seem to have mostly abandoned CES this year, so maybe that's why no one's there.

Supermallet

$300 players have already been announced at CES. I'm willing to bet by the end of the year we'll see one or two $199/$200 players.

Pizza

Okay, so HD DVD is probably as good as dead. But, I'm beginning to think the ship is sinking on Blu-ray, too. I think it's also tainted by this war of HDs. It was certainly a mistake to have two systems pop out ala SACD and DVD-A. Yet, the whole red and blue thing became an interesting novelty, even down to the colored cases. People started to proclaim themselves red, blue and even purple. There was a certain spirit to the competition (and a little name calling) that made it interesting.