Supermallet

OK, that makes more sense.

mhg83

Can you explain what you're talking about? What did FOX fuck up with Predator? Is it the new release of Predator on Blu-ray?

tylergfoster

I don't like Cameron's TCs or DCs. The perfect equilibrium is always in the middle.

Adam Tyner

Yes.

Nick Martin

Which is what, not watching his movies at all?

Solid Snake

.....uh....his TC are always the superior as far as I know.

Drexl

I'm not sure, but it sounds like they (subtly) applied DNR to grainy scenes and added "grain" to non-grainy scenes, in order to get a consistent look. For instance, it would look a bit strange to see all-cgi shots be grain-free in the context of the film.

Nick Martin

As far as I know, ALIENS and THE ABYSS are the only two movies of his where the extended versions are his preference, while all of the other movies - Terminator, T2, Titanic and Avatar (don't know about True Lies) are his director's cuts, and by that I mean the theatrical versions are his director's cuts.

Solid Snake

....I don't remember which I preferred in Aliens. I think I kept playing the DC of it cuz..the more Aliens I could get the better. LOVE that queen fight. Epic as fuck.

Nick Martin

That's why I prefer director's cuts in general, really though it depends on the movie. If you like something enough to want the movie to keep going, and there's a version where it does just that, well, call it a bonus.

The Reaper

The Burke cacoon scene was taken out because it didn't work. It would be way too soon for a facehugger to already have implanted him and for him to feel it (all in a mere hour or so). Up until now, Cameron has always forbade it to be shown. I don't know what changed his mind, but I am extremely happy for it.

I prefer the dc of Aliens, although the early Newt scene of her and her family drag it down a little. The extra bits of Ripley and the marines scattered throughout, and the sentry guns, are all aces, though.

tylergfoster

No. I just mean, I watch the DCs and generally feel they're too long, watch the TCs and miss material.

I know Terminator 2 better than Aliens offhand. I really like the garage scene where they de-chip Arnie (not least of the reasons is because it contains that great mirror gag with twins and fake heads), and I also like the scenes at the end when the T-1000 is glitching post-liquid nitrogen. The dog collar bit too, if that's only in the DC. Other additions I could do without, like more of Miles Dyson and his family, the Terminator and John learning to smile, some of that stuff is fine in and of itself but it feels like filler when it's actually in the movie.

I feel the same way about Aliens. I haven't seen The Abyss in long enough to know whether that applies too.

Nick Martin

Precisely why I prefer it as well.

I think it might have been a case of well, this is going to literally be the "everything and the kitchen sink" definitive release of these films, so if that one scene that fans have been wanting to see for what, 25 years almost now? If that wasn't in there it would be that one nagging little detail no one would let Fox, Cameron or the Blu-ray's producers forget about. There's really no need for anyone to feel precious about it anyway. Least it doesn't seem like there would be.

This thing even has both Alien and Aliens' intended scores as isolated tracks. That's just awesome. I made my own intended music score presentation for Aliens a few years ago, and I'm very happy it's going to be available in an isolated score track for this Blu-ray.


Oh okay. Yeah I get exactly what you mean now. Some additions like those T-1000 glitches and the Sarah twins are indeed great but some are just unnecessary. That's what I feel about most of the cut scenes in the extended "Independence Day", because most of the cut scenes are so poorly acted (they all involve Randy Quaid's character's family) but some are pretty damn good (Goldblum and Hirsch driving on the wrong side of the road, Goldblum and Spiner in the alien attacker and of course the Harvey Fierstein kiss).

Sometimes it's as extreme as one perfect scene added but at the cost of six bad ones stuck in there with it.

Eric D.

What I wrote was pretty clear, Fox messed up the new Predator Blu-ray with DNR. If you want to know about it more in depth, someone already provided you with a link to the thread about it.

Solid Snake

Let us never speak of the huge fucking turd the Predator BD is.

Giles

I'm curious to see how much DNR'ing Lowry has done for Aliens, Cameron intended the film to be grainy, and if the bluray retains it, I'm sure some are going to go apeshit over it.

Nick Martin

Just imagine if it was re-framed to 2.35 to be consistent with the other movies...

Or imagine if he went all Lucas and re-framed it, saying that was his original intention all along, since Cameron has said if he could do it again he would have shot it that way!

Evil ASh

I prefer the extended cut of T2 and I think the mirror scene should have been left in. Yes, the explanation for the chip is unnecessary, BUT it features a great moment when Sarah is about to break the chip and John stops her. She realizes that he's the future leader of mankind and listens. I always thought that was kind of important. And the mirror gag is brilliant of course.

mhg83

I googled DNR and even with the link i found was too technical for me. I still have no idea what DNR does or why it's so bad. From what I've gathered it's a way to clean up film which i always thought was a good thing. Why is it such a bad thing to clean up film?

Nick Martin

Long story extremely short, DNR basically erases fine detail in an image in order to make it look 'cleaner'.

With details gone, everything looks fake, polished, waxy, even blurry.

Of course there are more elaborate explanations, but that's as to-the-point and simple as I can say it.

bub

Yes, good laymans explanation, especially 'waxy'. I would even add that the more the film is DNR'd, the less nuance left in the image, eventually giving the film a very flat cartoonish appearance.

By the way, DNR stands for digital noise reduction. Film is analog so you are applying a digital technology to an analog source. This technology makes it virtually impossible to remove noise without also removing detail. Most purists would prefer the noise over the loss of fine detail, me included.

tylergfoster

One of the other subtle but terrible things removing grain does is that it distinctly flattens the picture. The variance in grain color probably does quite a bit for the sensation of depth, and by removing the grain, you also remove that sense of depth. It may be hard to imagine, but looking at the Predator caps, I see that as much as I see Wax Arnold.

Drexl

Cleaning up a film and removing grain are really two different things. Dirt and scratch removal is a good thing.

Living Dead

Same here. This is my favorite series of sci-fi films. But Fox's awful treatment of other seminal films prevents me from preordering.

Giles

from what I've read on the topic Cameron initially wanted the second film to be more guerilla like - 'hand held camera' as the type of war footage shot in Vietnam - hence why it wasn't shot in widescreen scope form and the image was to retain a grainy looking aspect - it wasn't until his discovery of Super 35mm did he make statements 'would have, should have' in terms of redoing it - did anyone see 'Aliens' in 70mm form when it was released in the theatres as such? I'd assume all those nuansances weren't erased but rather enhanced (i.e, more grain) the 6-track sound must have been thunderous and intense - kicking myself that I stuck to my neighborhood theatre (Mazza) and didn't check it out downtown at the now closed KB Fine Arts (where it had been presented in 70mm)