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Old 06-29-11, 07:50 AM
  #1451  
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re: Star Wars

Hmm I didnt know the full set was book format.
Old 06-29-11, 08:13 AM
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re: Star Wars

Looks like a carboard book like the Alien set. Not digging that at all.
Old 06-29-11, 08:15 AM
  #1453  
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re: Star Wars

Originally Posted by Jay G.
Then Mark Hamill, after saying "I don't recall that" makes specific mention of insert shots of hands and such, which is an odd thing to mention if the entire scene didn't exist. But perhaps Mark was referring to specifically not remembering constructing the lightsaber, instead of the cave scene altogether. Again, the interviewer specifically mentions the constructing of the lightsaber, which isn't seen in the deleted scene, and thus likely not shot with Hamill either. So Hamill remembers the cave, but not constructing the lightsaber, just fiddling with it.

So the Hamill interview isn't the "slam dunk" evidence of a conspiracy some make it out to be.
It's not unusual at all for filmmakers to use "doubles" for close-up insert shots of things like hands and feet. It wouldn't be unreasonable at all for Hamill to have filmed the scene with the lightsabre, then have the director use a stand-in to construct it/tinker with it later and insert it into the scene.
Old 06-29-11, 08:55 AM
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re: Star Wars

Originally Posted by milo bloom
Didn't I read somewhere they actually had a 90 minutes "fast" cut of Empire somewhat completed at one point?
I know the book The Secret History of Star Wars mentions that Lucas didn't like Kershner's original cut of ESB, and tried to create a faster-paced cut of the film, cutting out a lot of the character moments. However, Lucas didn't like the end result of his edit, and handed back control to Kershner. I don't know how long that cut actually was though.

I'd sell a kidney to see that. I've also read that there's so much alternate footage of ANH that you can construct a completely different movie. That'd be an extra worth buying the big set for.
If by "alternate footage" you mean completely different scenes, that's unlikely. The only movie attempted from deleted scenes is the "Wake Up Ron Burgundy" DTV movie, and even that had to use some footage from the original film.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake_Up...The_Lost_Movie

If by "alternate footage" you mean alternate takes of scenes shot, that's true of most films. Directors often don't stop shooting a scene after the first "good" take, but may shoot several takes that may end up in the final film. Some of this is for coverage, in case something bad happens to a particular reel of film, they'll still have a good take of the scene to use. Sometimes is for variety for experimenting with in the editing room. And sometimes it's because of perfectionism on the part of the Director; Stanley Kurbrick was notorious for the number of takes he'd shoot of a scene.

In fact, in the silent era, complete alternate negatives were assembled out of the alternate takes.
http://chart.copyrightdata.com/exercises.html
Those unfamiliar with the practices of movie production companies during the silent era might not realize that the creation of multiple complete, yet different, negatives was common practice before the conversion to talking pictures. Studios made film prints directly from the original camera negative. Duplication stock intended to copy a negative to make an identical negative, did not give satisfactory picture quality. Even special effects, split-screens, double-exposures and dissolves were done “in the camera.” Even during the late 1890s, a short film made two years earlier by the Edison Company was so popular that the negative wore out servicing print orders, so the actors were called back to film the story anew. Even in 1914, D.W. Griffith shot just one take of each shot for his mammoth epic The Birth of a Nation. The wear on the negative, early in the run — necessitating that some scenes be recopied from the better prints for lack of any better source — may have convinced the better-financed filmmakers that it was a good idea to film a second usable take on each shot, unless the film was deemed of limited appeal. Chaplin made of policy of setting aside alternate takes. Major productions in the United States were filmed under policies calling for multiple good takes on each shot, so that a complete negative comprised of alternate takes could be shipped to Europe, eliminating the need for the primary negative to be shipped back and forth across seas as demand increased for new prints...

...[Fritz] Lang prepared three negatives of Metropolis.
However, where alternate takes aren't that likely are for the FX scenes in Star Wars, although Lucas has replaced so much of it by now it may be possible to make an alternate version using only the original FX shots.
Old 06-29-11, 09:59 AM
  #1455  
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re: Star Wars

Originally Posted by Jay G.
My problem with the video "testimony" is that there's seems to be a bit of a breakdown in communication between the interviewer, Mark Hamill, and the scene in question.

First off, the interviewer asks about specifically constructing the lightsaber, which the deleted scene doesn't show. In the deleted scene, we see Luke adjusting something on the lightsaber, which may be the last tweaks after construction, but we don't see any actual construction.

Then Mark Hamill, after saying "I don't recall that" makes specific mention of insert shots of hands and such, which is an odd thing to mention if the entire scene didn't exist. But perhaps Mark was referring to specifically not remembering constructing the lightsaber, instead of the cave scene altogether. Again, the interviewer specifically mentions the constructing of the lightsaber, which isn't seen in the deleted scene, and thus likely not shot with Hamill either. So Hamill remembers the cave, but not constructing the lightsaber, just fiddling with it.

So the Hamill interview isn't the "slam dunk" evidence of a conspiracy some make it out to be.

I believe the "hand" shots he was referring to were those in Empire, where he's receiving the prosthetic ...
Old 06-29-11, 10:05 AM
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re: Star Wars

Originally Posted by applesandrice
I believe the "hand" shots he was referring to were those in Empire, where he's receiving the prosthetic ...
Yeah, he mentions that as a reference for what he's suggesting: that they may have done a similar insert shot of hands assembling the lightsaber for Jedi. But again, that suggests that he remembers the primary shooting of the scene in the cave, since it wouldn't make sense to have an insert shot of assembling the lightsaber without the surrounding footage shown in the deleted scene.
Old 06-29-11, 10:23 AM
  #1457  
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re: Star Wars

Originally Posted by trespoochies
Looks like a carboard book like the Alien set. Not digging that at all.
Bleh, definitely waiting for a really good deal before I bite on this set. And if the discs slide into cardboard pockets in the pages then I'm definitely waiting for a re-packaging.


Originally Posted by Jay G.
I know the book The Secret History of Star Wars mentions that Lucas didn't like Kershner's original cut of ESB, and tried to create a faster-paced cut of the film, cutting out a lot of the character moments. However, Lucas didn't like the end result of his edit, and handed back control to Kershner. I don't know how long that cut actually was though.
Not sure, maybe I'm just putting together other conjectures I've read in this thread in my head to come up with something, but no matter, I'd still love to see whatever they have that would show that thought process.

Along those lines, I still maintain that the prequels (and ROTJ, to some extent) would all benefit greatly from another pass through the editing bay to tighten them up a bit. I think it would move even The Phantom Menace into solid B-grade movie territory.

Originally Posted by Jay G.
If by "alternate footage" you mean completely different scenes, that's unlikely. The only movie attempted from deleted scenes is the "Wake Up Ron Burgundy" DTV movie, and even that had to use some footage from the original film.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake_Up...The_Lost_Movie

If by "alternate footage" you mean alternate takes of scenes shot, that's true of most films. Directors often don't stop shooting a scene after the first "good" take, but may shoot several takes that may end up in the final film. Some of this is for coverage, in case something bad happens to a particular reel of film, they'll still have a good take of the scene to use. Sometimes is for variety for experimenting with in the editing room. And sometimes it's because of perfectionism on the part of the Director; Stanley Kurbrick was notorious for the number of takes he'd shoot of a scene.

In fact, in the silent era, complete alternate negatives were assembled out of the alternate takes.
http://chart.copyrightdata.com/exercises.html


However, where alternate takes aren't that likely are for the FX scenes in Star Wars, although Lucas has replaced so much of it by now it may be possible to make an alternate version using only the original FX shots.

Not exactly what I'm thinking of, more along the lines of some scenes being shot with a different emotion or tone than what we ended up seeing. One scene that comes to mind was from ANH where our heroes are still trying to escape the Death Star and there's a scene where they're walking down a hallway, and doing a non-chalant, whistling type of thing trying to be inconspicuous in front of all the stormtroopers and such, kinda like a Bugs Bunny trying to sneak by Elmer Fudd kind of shtick. Not sure where I read that, but that's the kind of thing I'm talking about.
Old 06-29-11, 10:44 AM
  #1458  
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re: Star Wars

Originally Posted by milo bloom
Not exactly what I'm thinking of, more along the lines of some scenes being shot with a different emotion or tone than what we ended up seeing. One scene that comes to mind was from ANH where our heroes are still trying to escape the Death Star and there's a scene where they're walking down a hallway, and doing a non-chalant, whistling type of thing trying to be inconspicuous in front of all the stormtroopers and such, kinda like a Bugs Bunny trying to sneak by Elmer Fudd kind of shtick. Not sure where I read that, but that's the kind of thing I'm talking about.
The scene you mention was from the "lost" first edit of Star Wars, done by John Jympson. As this link notes, it wasn't a completely different film, but has around 30-40% different footage, composed of either deleted scenes or alternate takes:

http://www.starwarsholidayspecial.co...4/lostcut.html

More information on the "Lost Cut:
http://www.impossiblefunky.com/archi...e%20Lost%20Cut
http://www.starwarz.com/tbone/index....2_articleid=77
http://swtor.gamingfeeds.com/2010/11...wars-new-hope/

A list of scenes cut from all the films:
http://www.blueharvest.net/images/cut.shtml
Old 06-29-11, 03:29 PM
  #1459  
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re: Star Wars

I really hope the packaging isn't like the Aliens set. As nice as it may be, having individual cases is a lot easier (and probably offers better protection for the movies).
Old 06-29-11, 04:03 PM
  #1460  
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re: Star Wars

I thought most people liked the packaging on the Alien set - I did!
Old 06-29-11, 04:05 PM
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re: Star Wars

I think you guys are forgetting about the fact that blu-rays have a special coating that makes it near impossible to scratch them by accident.
Old 06-29-11, 04:35 PM
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re: Star Wars

Originally Posted by TheDuke
I think you guys are forgetting about the fact that blu-rays have a special coating that makes it near impossible to scratch them by accident.
exactly.

I loved the Alien packaging and am very glad it's the same here. I'm sure there will be a billion custom cover designs done, so it's not like everyone will be 'stuck' w/ this packaging if they don't like it
Old 06-29-11, 09:25 PM
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re: Star Wars

That whole Luke building the lightsaber looks fake, except for the scene of C-3PO standing outside.

This site has the original storyboard, and interviews. It looks like C-3PO's scene was filmed whereas the interior was never filmed.

Its too bad that this is being passed off as real. Just another sham.

http://www.starwarz.com/tbone/index...._articleid=428
Old 06-30-11, 10:06 AM
  #1464  
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re: Star Wars

Originally Posted by Jay G.
The scene you mention was from the "lost" first edit of Star Wars, done by John Jympson. As this link notes, it wasn't a completely different film, but has around 30-40% different footage, composed of either deleted scenes or alternate takes:

http://www.starwarsholidayspecial.co...4/lostcut.html

More information on the "Lost Cut:
http://www.impossiblefunky.com/archi...e%20Lost%20Cut
http://www.starwarz.com/tbone/index....2_articleid=77
http://swtor.gamingfeeds.com/2010/11...wars-new-hope/

A list of scenes cut from all the films:
http://www.blueharvest.net/images/cut.shtml

Incredible stuff. I wish the people putting together the SW DVDs had the same level of interest in this type of material, I mean, a whole movie on the 501st? Again, nice that they do charity work, but that's not what I want on a definitive Bluray set.

It really feels weird for me to be such a longtime SW fan, but have only a passing interest in this set.
Old 06-30-11, 11:11 AM
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re: Star Wars

Originally Posted by chanster
That whole Luke building the lightsaber looks fake, except for the scene of C-3PO standing outside.
"It's shopped. I can tell by the pixels."


Originally Posted by chanster
This site has the original storyboard, and interviews. It looks like C-3PO's scene was filmed whereas the interior was never filmed.

http://www.starwarz.com/tbone/index...._articleid=428
From the article you quoted...
So if John Williams went ahead and scored the scene, and those cues in that brief segment of music sound like they are timed perfectly with some film edits, we can probably assume that the entire scene was filmed and remains somewhere on a Lucasfilm shelf.
Then later in the article...
Paul Harrison, master of [Elstree Props, a prop house that worked on the Star Wars films], alerted me to this page on his site where he has actual photos of the hero prop that was created for this scene. Interestingly enough, he claims that not only was this shot but it was cut from the film and then lost.
You can see photos of the prop here:
http://web.archive.org/web/200608221...htsabers_.html

More info on the prop:
http://www.originalprop.com/blog/200...ca/#more-14305


So the article you linked to arrives at the conclusion that the full scene was shot, including the interior of the cave.
Old 06-30-11, 11:58 AM
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re: Star Wars

Originally Posted by chanster
That whole Luke building the lightsaber looks fake, except for the scene of C-3PO standing outside.

This site has the original storyboard, and interviews. It looks like C-3PO's scene was filmed whereas the interior was never filmed.

Its too bad that this is being passed off as real. Just another sham.

http://www.starwarz.com/tbone/index...._articleid=428
That article is inconclusive, but even the author thinks the clip shown last August is authentic. So your link really isn't iron clad proof.
Old 06-30-11, 12:20 PM
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re: Star Wars

Originally Posted by TheDuke
I think you guys are forgetting about the fact that blu-rays have a special coating that makes it near impossible to scratch them by accident.
The coating didn't seem to stop the Planet of the Apes: 40 Year Evolution packaging from scratching the hell out of all 5 of my discs.
Old 06-30-11, 01:28 PM
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re: Star Wars

Yeah, that anti-scratch coating is pretty nice, but I don't want to test it too much.
Old 06-30-11, 09:50 PM
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re: Star Wars

Hopefully the UK version is like the Alien gatefold set. I hate these digibooks or whatever you want to call them.
Old 07-01-11, 02:09 AM
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re: Star Wars

Surprised so many are buying the set with the dreaded prequels. Am I the only one getting the original trilogy only?
Old 07-01-11, 06:11 AM
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re: Star Wars

Originally Posted by PopcornTreeCt
Surprised so many are buying the set with the dreaded prequels. Am I the only one getting the original trilogy only?
Well, there're also people like me who aren't buying either...
Old 07-01-11, 07:05 AM
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re: Star Wars

Originally Posted by PopcornTreeCt
Surprised so many are buying the set with the dreaded prequels. Am I the only one getting the original trilogy only?
I think people just naturally gravitate to any boxset (artwork is appealing) for the extras and 'put up' with the crappy movies.

The only true test you can ever tell about fans buying habits is if they sold the movies individually and the extras were a seperate disc.

Then you may have alot of fans just buying Star Wars and Empire like me

Last edited by mcnabb; 07-01-11 at 07:14 AM.
Old 07-01-11, 07:26 AM
  #1473  
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re: Star Wars

Actually I just canceled my Saga pre-order yesterday. I decided that 30 years in, I've had my fill of Star Wars extras and don't really care about the prequels anymore. Figured I'd save that $45 for something else.

In for just the OT set now.
Old 07-01-11, 07:36 AM
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re: Star Wars

I like ROTS well enough, so I'm in for the box set. I have a feeling that Attack of the Clones is going to be hardest to sit through. Shudder...
Old 07-01-11, 09:29 AM
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re: Star Wars

I like the last hour of Clones and most of ROTS, but PM is going to be tough to stomach. The only reason I'm keeping the DVD is for The Beginning documentary, which I'm assuming with be redacted from the blu ray set.


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