Artman

Well, newly created or not... it's far more interesting than anything else extras wise.

tylergfoster

He's wearing the cloak because either a) it's meant to build anticipation to him removing it, or b) they're trying to suggest it's someone other than Luke. He keeps the cloak on until he's inside Jabba's Palace, so it'd be one of those things that would make sense when you saw the sequence as one long build but not necessarily from a realistic standpoint. Like a character always being shot from behind or having their hat pulled down until the big reveal.

Jay G.

The fact that the scene is different than the storyboard doesn't really mean anything, as this happens all the time for live action films. The original storyboards for Star Wars had a slightly different title "The Star Wars," and a very different design for the Millennium Falcon.

As droidguy1119 points out, Luke being at least partially concealed by the cloak fits in with his introduction in the final cut. Lucas perhaps liked that Luke's face isn't fully revealed until inside Jabba's palace, so when shooting the interior cave scene, kept Luke's face hidden there as well.

The thing I don't understand about the "cave scene is new" conspiracy theory is: why would Lucas try to pass of a newly shot scene as a deleted one instead of a reconstruction? I mean, this is a man who has proudly inserted new shots into all the OT films. For example, when the SEs were made, Lucasfilm specifically pointed out that they shot new footage with Jabba's dancer in the rancor pit for Jedi, instead of making up a story of discovering "deleted footage" for that scene (which, considering the footage they shot, would've been believable). So, if they're willing to own up to new footage actually inserted into the films, why would they lie about a scene that's not even in the film?

Guru Askew

Thats precisely what the conspirators want you to think... that is, if you aren't part of the conspiracy yourself. Actually the more I think about it the more I'm convinced that you've been paid by LucasFilm to write that last post. I've never been more certain of anything in my fucking life.

Jay G.

OK, you caught me. All my previous ranting against the prequels, the SEs, and the 3D conversions was just a clever smokescreen so I could trick people about a minute long deleted scene from ROTJ.

chanster

I wonder who could be mysterious figure with R2 and C-3PO could be. Doesn't make sense. No mystery, but thats par for the course in the brave new world of the prequels, where idiotic mysteries were par for the course.

As presented in the movie, the cloaked Luke works because he arrives separately from the droids.

The cutting of the cave scene (or the non-filming) made perfect sense from a dramatic point of view. People didn't know the lightsaber was in R2 during the fight, so it was a nice surprise.

As far as motivations, I don't know, but it makes sense to sell something as an extra, in a package where the extras are already generally mediocre, as a deleted scene as opposed to a re-composed scene or re-constructed.

Josh Z

With every new day that passes, George Lucas continues to reinvent the history of Star Wars. In 1997 he may have admitted that he shot new footage for the SEs and redid the visual effects, but you won't find any reference to that in the bonus features on current releases, which are no longer called "Special Editions." He wants new generations of children to believe that Star Wars has always been what it currently is, and that rumors they may hear about previous versions of the movies were pre-production incomplete workprints stolen from his hands and sold on the black market.

Jay G.

I don't think it was to conceal his identity (the cutting from Vader calling to Luke to the cloaked figure makes it pretty clear it's intended to be Luke), but to delay the effect of actually seeing his face for the first time.

I mean, it's not like in the movie now that there's much doubt about who the cloaked figure is either.

This isn't the only deleted scene that will be included though. There's several deleted scenes from each film. If this specific scene was a partial or complete reconstruction, I don't think it'd severely hurt the marketability of the set.

You go into a bit of hyperbole at the end there, but this argument may make sense if we were talking about a scene re-inserted into the film itself, like the scene with Jabba's dancer. As it is, we're talking about a scene that Lucas and/or director Richard Marquand cut out of the original cut, and that Lucas is keeping cut out of the film. The credibility of the SEs are not thrown into question if this scene was a reconstruction instead of just deleted footage.

The evidence for the scene being original footage is sufficient enough for me to conclude that Lucasfilm is not lying about it. The conspiracy theory that it's new footage that they're attempting to pass off as a deleted scene relies on evidence that is either flimsy or at best circumstantial, when it relies on evidence at all instead of wild suppositions about motivations and such of the people involved.

Tom Creo

Cannot wait for these. First day purchase for me.

packaok

10 Weeks, 4 Days, 8 Hours, 6 Minutes until release date!

chanster

No one is attempting to write a thesis on whether this scene is original or not. Its a time wasting discussion, and given Lucas' track record of altering his films, then attempting to eradicate the evidence, I wouldn't put it past him.

Plenty of deleted scenes in DVDs are finished or altered to give the viewer a chance to view it. Fine. We don't even know how this is presented on the DVD itself.

Why aren't scenes like Han shooting first or Sebastian Shaw shown as deleted scenes? After all, according to Lucasfilm, they are no longer part of Star Wars. They are the ultimate deleted scenes, and are not included in the set.

Jay G.

Maybe not a thesis, but you and others are certainly pushing the argument that the scene is fake, or as you put it, a "sham." I'm simply countering that argument. I'm not the biggest fan of Lucas either, or of his constant tinkering with these films, but I still think the suggestion that the deleted scene is new footage passed off as original footage is a stretch.

Those aren't deleted scenes though, but alternate versions of existing scenes. The original footage was literally altered to create the newer versions.

Also, I don't really see people clamoring for those specific scenes to be represented as extras on a separate disc, but incorporated into a full original cut of the film.

Finally, how do you know that those scenes won't be included on the Blu-ray? The specs for the Blu-ray set state "deleted, extended and alternate scenes". The "Luke in the cave" scene is the only one confirmed so far, but it's possible that the scenes you listed could be included.

chanster

Oh its still a sham, but I am not here to prove it, nor could I.

And, if those scenes are included- I will send you $10. Just make sure to private message me your address. I will be around.

Jay G.

So if you have no evidence that it's a sham, why do you believe it is?

I never said the scenes will be included. I was just pointing out that you have no evidence that they're not, since the specifics of the extras haven't been fully announced yet.

You seem to have a habit of being very certain of things you have no evidence for when it comes to this set.

Guru Askew

There are a handful of elements that pretty much universally appeal to conspiracy nuts regardless of whether you're dealing with someone who thinks 9/11 or the JFK assassination were government conspiracies or a Hollywood director is faking deleted scenes.

The two that I think apply in this case:

1: The idea that Lucas has gone to great lengths to mislead people into believing that something newly-created is archival footage from 28 years ago is simply a lot more interesting than the infinitely more-reasonable idea that it's authentic and has been sitting on a shelf all that time.

2: Unimportant people with no credibility tend to feel a sense if empowerment by "opening peoples' eyes" by "blowing the lid off" of these conspiracies.

Cryptozoology has some of the same things as well. You basically have people who are biased towards a certain way of thinking for the reasons above and they'll almost always do what this guy is doing: they'll bend "facts" to support their biased belief, ignore evidence that contradicts it and ultimately they'll play the "you'll never convince me otherwise" card when their backs are to the wall.

Josh-da-man

Is there any other filmmaker out there who would be accused of fabricating deleted scenes for a nearly thirty year-old movie?

You really have to marvel at how far Lucas' constant revisionism has gone; it's at the point where he's no longer trusted. A few seconds of footage (allegedly!) filmed twenty-nine years ago surfaces and people are calling him a fucking liar. It's so bizarre.

georgec

Is there any other filmmaker out there who has tampered with his movies as much as Lucas, milking fans for their money while not giving them the product they really want?

Solid Snake

I would say Chaplin tampered w/ his own films (he was a true perfectionist...for better or for worse) more than any other filmmaker. He didn't do it to screw the consumer...that wasn't his issue nor did it affect the consumer to any extent to what Lucas does his fan base...and Cinema in general. Different times. Chaplin took out moments, changed music, etc etc. When one film was out...he might change it later still not being happy. Music, seconds worth of footage, etc.

BUT he did this in a time where home video wasn't an issue. Multiple versions of some films. He did it to make it "better" to what it was. I'm not a pro on Chaplin though, If we got Ash in here he could talk more about it.

Lucas released a product in theaters, released the same version on VHS. By doing that he essentially stamped that was THE intended version and one that MOST audiences REMEMBER (both being the same films..unless otherwise).

The SEs are essentially his censoring/erasing of those films in the history of film. Which is in a way offensive.

I'm not even a SW fan...I do like ANH and ESB, w/ a lot of minor appreciation for RoTJ.

chanster

The point is, Lucas now claims the SE's are what he originally intended in all of the films. Which, I guess, if he was a slave to some evil studio, could make sense.

But the fact is, Lucas had control over the entire series from day one (And yes, I know Fox had ownership of ANH at the beginning..but Lucas basically had control over the product because no one cared about the movie that much to mess with it) So, he could have done whatever he wanted to back in the day.

He claims now that he didn't have the technology to do some things. OK, that may explain some of the stupid droids added in to Mos Eisley. But it doesn't explain the substantive changes that probably draws the most criticism. If he wanted to Han shoot first in the cantina, that could have happened. If he wanted a young Anakin to appear in ROTJ, that could have happned. And it doesn't explain the dropping of Special Edition from the subtitle to at least remind people that there was a version of ANH that existed before he started messing with it. And yes, I know he released the original versions a few years ago, but given the care in those releases, there was definitely a fuck you going on there.

Jay G.

I agree with almost everything in your post.

However, I don't think Lucas's actions regarding these films is enough to even suggest that he would masquerade new footage as a deleted scene from Jedi, especially as it's remaining a deleted scene.

For the deleted scene in question, we have storyboards for the scene. We have testimony by one actor that at least part of the scene was shot. We have a prop that was made specifically for the scene. We have music that was composed and recorded for the scene. All this material was known of before the scene was shown. All of this evidence suggested that the scene most likely existed.

Chaplin's decades later re-edits of his silent films for the era of sound go beyond the amount of tampering done by Lucas, if not just by the use of alternate takes for nearly every shot. Adding in and excising footage, adding music and narrataion, and speeding up the films to 24fps. What's more, these later re-edits are considered the "official" versions by the Chaplin Estate.

http://whatculture.com/film/the-gold...ssic-in-hd.php
http://www.dvdjournal.com/reviews/g/goldrush.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gol...942_re-release
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chaplin_Revue

While Chaplin's films most often were re-edited before the advent of home video, they were most likely shown on television numerous times in the original versions before the re-edits occurred.

PopcornTreeCt

Chaplin's films are available in their original formats. That's the rub.

Living Dead

Lucas is pretty much all about the money, but he won't offer a product that would sell like crazy. I mean sure, he'll make millions with the OT on Blu, but he'd make even more by giving old school fans the version they desire. The number of people who refuse to buy the new set will be greatly outnumbered by those who do, but we will still cost Lucas money.

To me, this is proof that Lucas will never release the original versions in a restored presentation. He's already rich beyond most people's dreams, so in his warped mind, changing the history of the films is more important than maximizing profit. In a hundred years, when all of us who saw the originals are long dead, the bastardized versions that are out there now will be the accepted norm. And God only knows what other unnecessary crap Lucas will add into the films during the rest of his lifetime. Whatever version exists on the day he dies, that will be the version future generations will know... and that's pretty damn depressing.

I'll stick with my bootlegs... apparently forever.

The Cow

The original Star Wars movies are available as well. Just not independently, and not in "high" quality.

BuckNaked2k

What a shame. 1500+ posts all centered around the same basic subject: the loss of the OOTs to film history.

Imagine if Lucas wasn't such a jackwagon and put out beautiful restorations of the original films in 1080p for home viewing? How happy we all would be. Debate ended.

Imagine....

RobLutter