Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher
#7226
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens (12/18/2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fi
If you killed a bunch of people, including kids, and got to come back as your young self force ghost you would have that smart ass smirk on your face too.
#7227
Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens (12/18/2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fi
The point for me is that watching RoTJ originally we had no idea what Jedi wore. We assumed that they looked like Kenobi and Yoda so Anakin fit in. Keeping the original ending the outfit isn't jarring. However putting Hayden connects it to the PT so much that seeing him like that doesn't make sense. If Lucas wanted to put Hayden in there he should look like he did in RoTS. Or put McGregor in there as well and replace Guinness and it would work to prove Lucas' point.
I don't have a problem how old Anakin is dressed in the ending of ROTJ, because it makes sense like you said. But in hindsight, it's kind of dumb to have this mass murderer return as a Force ghost, smiling with Obi-wan and Yoda. Killing your evil boss and sparing your son shouldn't erase mass murder.
#7228
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens (12/18/2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fi
In 1983, Darth Vader was an evil guy, but you didn't know what evil he did. We know he turned to the Dark Side, but that scene where he killed all of the jedi kids in ROTS never sat well with me because there was no context to that since he just turned 5 minutes before? I could understand his motivations in AOTC because the Tuskens took his mom hostage, so there was atleast a context to him going apeshit and cleaning out their tribe.
It really goes to show that prequels rarely help a linear story that is being told, because everyone develops their own backstory that works for them. After watching ROTS, I wanted Anakin altogether out of the force ghost scene.
#7229
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens (12/18/2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fi
Wasn't an argument by fans of the original trilogy that Jedi in the prequels shouldn't be dressed like old Obi-wan? Because in ANH he was obviously trying to be somewhat incognito on Tattooine by altering his name and wearing a cloak and outfit that would blend in with the locals.
I don't have a problem how old Anakin is dressed in the ending of ROTJ, because it makes sense like you said. But in hindsight, it's kind of dumb to have this mass murderer return as a Force ghost, smiling with Obi-wan and Yoda. Killing your evil boss and sparing your son shouldn't erase mass murder.
I don't have a problem how old Anakin is dressed in the ending of ROTJ, because it makes sense like you said. But in hindsight, it's kind of dumb to have this mass murderer return as a Force ghost, smiling with Obi-wan and Yoda. Killing your evil boss and sparing your son shouldn't erase mass murder.
#7230
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens (12/18/2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fi
Maybe there are photos of Anakin Skywalker from back in the Clone Wars that Luke looked up so he knew what Anakin looked like.
#7231
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens (12/18/2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fi
That's true even in the original -- the ghost of Annakin doesn't look a thing like the Mr. Potato Head under Vader's helmet. Either way Luke has to figure it out from the context.
#7232
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens (12/18/2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fi
In the original Sebastian Shaw played him in the unmasking scene and the Force spirit scene though. I guess I could always tell they were the same person. He looked different mainly because Anakin's face was scarred/swollen presumably from being under the Vader helmet for so long, whereas in the Force spirit scene he looked healthier and had hair.
#7233
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens (12/18/2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fi
Yeah. You could tell unmasked Vader was that fat white guy standing next to Yoda and Kenobi.
#7234
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens (12/18/2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fi
What doesn't make sense is that Anakin gets to be a young ghost, but Obi-Wan and Yoda have to stay old.
I hope they do away with the whole Force ghost thing in the new movies. Just don't bring it up or mention it again.
I hope they do away with the whole Force ghost thing in the new movies. Just don't bring it up or mention it again.
#7235
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens (12/18/2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fi
I think the explanation was that their force ghost reverted to the last time they were on "the light side". stupid, but so was 99% of the OT changes.
#7236
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens (12/18/2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fi
In 1983, Darth Vader was an evil guy, but you didn't know what evil he did. We know he turned to the Dark Side, but that scene where he killed all of the jedi kids in ROTS never sat well with me because there was no context to that since he just turned 5 minutes before? I could understand his motivations in AOTC because the Tuskens took his mom hostage, so there was atleast a context to him going apeshit and cleaning out their tribe.
We spent nearly three decades wondering what made Anakin Skywalker fall to the Dark Side. And the answer seemed to be that he was just an asshole. A selfish, pouty, spoiled, narcissistic asshole. The kind of person who makes everyone around them miserable and messes up everything they touch. ( Though it is kind of funny that a nice, sweet girl like Padme falls head over heels for Darth Asshole because that happens all the time in the real world. But I don't think that was Lucas' intent at all.)
In the OT we were told that Darth Vader helped the Empire hunt down and exterminate the Jedi. In ROTS, all he does is hack up a bunch of five year-olds. Maybe this was another one of Obi-Wan's lies designed to shield Luke from the truth? Still makes Annie come off like an asshole.
Which really makes Lucas' angle of the saga being about the "tragedy" of Annakin Skywalker ironic since there is very little tragedy there. He was always a prick.
#7237
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens (12/18/2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fi
What's even more frustrating is that all the political BS could have actually served a purpose had Anakin been older when he met Obi Wan. Originally, Qui Gon was meant to be the Padawan to an already Jedi rank Obi Wan. Had Anakin been older, he could have already been jaded over his life as a slave (instead of the wide eyed optimism that Lucas went with in Episode I) which could have grown into resentment towards the Republic. After all, to his eyes they would have been content to see the Outer Rim planets rot under the control of local crime bosses (like the Hutts on Tattooine). Then someone like Senator Palpatine, who claims he's championing for change in the Republic for the good of all, would seem very appealing to someone like Anakin. And, hey, all the endless political debates might not have been so pointless.
#7238
Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens (12/18/2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fi
Darth Vader is one of the many places the prequels stumbled.
In the OT we were told that Darth Vader helped the Empire hunt down and exterminate the Jedi. In ROTS, all he does is hack up a bunch of five year-olds. Maybe this was another one of Obi-Wan's lies designed to shield Luke from the truth? Still makes Annie come off like an asshole.
Which really makes Lucas' angle of the saga being about the "tragedy" of Annakin Skywalker ironic since there is very little tragedy there. He was always a prick.
In the OT we were told that Darth Vader helped the Empire hunt down and exterminate the Jedi. In ROTS, all he does is hack up a bunch of five year-olds. Maybe this was another one of Obi-Wan's lies designed to shield Luke from the truth? Still makes Annie come off like an asshole.
Which really makes Lucas' angle of the saga being about the "tragedy" of Annakin Skywalker ironic since there is very little tragedy there. He was always a prick.
I still think he should have spent more time on Anakin's evil deeds but I can at least see where Lucas was coming from when he made Episode III. I can't understand the other stuff though like making Anakin so whiny for the last two films.
What's even more frustrating is that all the political BS could have actually served a purpose had Anakin been older when he met Obi Wan. Originally, Qui Gon was meant to be the Padawan to an already Jedi rank Obi Wan. Had Anakin been older, he could have already been jaded over his life as a slave (instead of the wide eyed optimism that Lucas went with in Episode I) which could have grown into resentment towards the Republic. After all, to his eyes they would have been content to see the Outer Rim planets rot under the control of local crime bosses (like the Hutts on Tattooine). Then someone like Senator Palpatine, who claims he's championing for change in the Republic for the good of all, would seem very appealing to someone like Anakin. And, hey, all the endless political debates might not have been so pointless.
#7239
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens (12/18/2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fi
-Episode I: 2 hours of Anakin/Obiwan friendship dynamic as Obiwan finds him and they battle to save Padme on Naboo. Anakin is 20 years old instead of 10 years old.
-Episode II: Anakin falls in love with Padme, and starts to become good friends with Palpatine causing a rift between Obiwan. He feels the Jedi are holding his abilities back as Palpatine promises him the world, and turns to the darkside at the end of the movie.
-Episiode III: The plot of this movie is a mysterious sith is killing Jedi one by one. Anakin goes around to different planets and starts taking out Jedi on missions from Palpatine, as he eventually takes out Mace. Once Kenobi/Yoda find out they wisk Padme and her twins off into isolation and Kenobi confronts Anakin while Yoda confronts Palpatine.
Heck, I wrote this in about 5 minutes so there is so much more I could flesh out from this story and the characters. Lucas had 20 years to write it!
#7240
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens (12/18/2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fi
Totally agree ^^^ Anakin was way too young in the first movie.
#7241
DVD Talk Limited Edition
#7242
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens (12/18/2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fi
This should have been the main plot of Episode III.
-Episode I: 2 hours of Anakin/Obiwan friendship dynamic as Obiwan finds him and they battle to save Padme on Naboo. Anakin is 20 years old instead of 10 years old.
-Episode II: Anakin falls in love with Padme, and starts to become good friends with Palpatine causing a rift between Obiwan. He feels the Jedi are holding his abilities back as Palpatine promises him the world, and turns to the darkside at the end of the movie.
-Episiode III: The plot of this movie is a mysterious sith is killing Jedi one by one. Anakin goes around to different planets and starts taking out Jedi on missions from Palpatine, as he eventually takes out Mace. Once Kenobi/Yoda find out they wisk Padme and her twins off into isolation and Kenobi confronts Anakin while Yoda confronts Palpatine.
Heck, I wrote this in about 5 minutes so there is so much more I could flesh out from this story and the characters. Lucas had 20 years to write it!
-Episode I: 2 hours of Anakin/Obiwan friendship dynamic as Obiwan finds him and they battle to save Padme on Naboo. Anakin is 20 years old instead of 10 years old.
-Episode II: Anakin falls in love with Padme, and starts to become good friends with Palpatine causing a rift between Obiwan. He feels the Jedi are holding his abilities back as Palpatine promises him the world, and turns to the darkside at the end of the movie.
-Episiode III: The plot of this movie is a mysterious sith is killing Jedi one by one. Anakin goes around to different planets and starts taking out Jedi on missions from Palpatine, as he eventually takes out Mace. Once Kenobi/Yoda find out they wisk Padme and her twins off into isolation and Kenobi confronts Anakin while Yoda confronts Palpatine.
Heck, I wrote this in about 5 minutes so there is so much more I could flesh out from this story and the characters. Lucas had 20 years to write it!
#7244
Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens (12/18/2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fi
Fisher's daughter confirmed she's not playing Leia in a flashback scene:
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/BmFVniUl9gE?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/BmFVniUl9gE?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
#7245
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens (12/18/2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fi
Could Carrie Fisher please stop doing the duckface with her lips in EVERY picture I see lately? This one isn't as bad as others, but I don't want to see a 60 year old Leia in TFA doing this face in the movie.
#7246
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens (12/18/2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fi
She's the one I cringe the most in thinking how she'll be presented. She hasn't aged well.
#7247
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens (12/18/2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fi
I think the real reason Lucas did it was to tie his prequels into the original trilogy. But then put Ewan McGregor in there as well. Of course, then you have to cut out Alec, which would have really been insulting.
#7249
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens (12/18/2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fi
This should have been the main plot of Episode III.
-Episiode III: The plot of this movie is a mysterious sith is killing Jedi one by one. Anakin goes around to different planets and starts taking out Jedi on missions from Palpatine, as he eventually takes out Mace. Once Kenobi/Yoda find out they wisk Padme and her twins off into isolation and Kenobi confronts Anakin while Yoda confronts Palpatine.
-Episiode III: The plot of this movie is a mysterious sith is killing Jedi one by one. Anakin goes around to different planets and starts taking out Jedi on missions from Palpatine, as he eventually takes out Mace. Once Kenobi/Yoda find out they wisk Padme and her twins off into isolation and Kenobi confronts Anakin while Yoda confronts Palpatine.
#7250
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens (12/18/2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fi
Lucas could have kept that birth scene exactly the same, but added a quick moment where Padme looks at baby Leia and their eyes linger on each other for like a second, and for whatever reason didn't get that opportunity to do so with Luke, like a Force imprint thing going on. Still stupid, but at least an attempt to make that line spoken by adult Leia in the OT make a little more sense.
But the reality is that Lucas just didn't care. He was too busy playing in his Adobe Paint sandbox to try and make any sense of the story or getting any quality performances out of the actors.