Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
04-13-19, 06:36 PM
#1126
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
I'm still thinking that, by the end, the Jedi and Sith will be no more, and Force users will follow a more "gray" path. Maybe the Kylo's Knights of Renn will be a less evil group of Dark Side users, and Rey will start a new group of Light Side users that is less self-righteous than the Jedi. This what the "Balance of the Force" is ultimately about, the light and dark need each other to exist. Rebels has touched on ideas like this with the Bendu.
So, in the end, the Star Wars "saga" of Episodes I-IX will be like the The Lord of the Rings, where one age transitions to another.
So, in the end, the Star Wars "saga" of Episodes I-IX will be like the The Lord of the Rings, where one age transitions to another.
04-13-19, 06:39 PM
#1127
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
04-13-19, 09:49 PM
#1128
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
No, as others have noted, it's still on. Apparently, since it's going to be outside the Skywalker saga, LFL doesn't feel it will be a problem. You have to admit, TLJ has some great sequences, and isn't a terrible Star Wars movie - it just doesn't feel like it should have been the followup to TFA.
That pleases me greatly if true to know that there’s some acknowledgment of that film having a lot of issues. The only thing that makes me call it into question is the fact that before The Last Jedi released there was all this talk about it being loved internally and that was a lot of the reason for Johnson getting the green light for a trilogy.
That's showbiz, they're not going to trash one of their own. And TLJ did manage to make some bank, so they're not going to totally throw him under the bus. Even my person that I'm talking to admits that TLJ has some good parts to it, it just doesn't fit the trilogy like it would if JJ had been able to do them all (and he simply couldn't due to the rushed production schedule).
But what appears to have happened was that production for TFA was so problematic (Ford's leg, script issues of its own) that when TLJ started pre-production before TFA was finished, RJ was able to put in his own touches. JJ did have an outline. This was mentioned when TFA came out, but if you'll notice they stopped mentioning it when TLJ came out.
JJ is apparently making TROS more of a sequel to the story points he started in TFA than a direct continuation of TLJ, but he will still acknowledge that it happened. He can't just ignore it completely.
To give a little perspective on this person in the know, they have seen a lot of what is going on in TROS. A lot. And as for their "fan status", they are a long time fan of the movies even before getting to where they are, they love the OT, have problems with the PT (thinks Duel of the Fates is the best bit, naturally), but despite that, they are still able to love Star Wars as a whole, and are happy that new movies are being made. So keeping that in mind, with what they have seen of TROS (which seems to be sizable) they are extremely positive that it will "restore balance to the fandom" (my words, not theirs). When the teaser finally dropped, they were so excited to see everybody gushing over it as they apparently knew some of what was going to be shown.
From this and some other things they've mentioned, I truly think TROS will truly a good experience, and will be a good endcap to the Skywalker saga.
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This is my personal thoughts regarding the what the title means: I've been thinking for several weeks now (since the rumor that the title was going to be "Skywalkers") that Rey will create a group of Force users that don't pigeonhole themselves into 'light side " or "dark side", they will simply use the Force and they will call themselves "Skywalkers". It will become a title of sorts. That's just my speculation, my person in the know refuses to say if they know anything about this either way and I'm not going to push them for answers and ruin our friendship.
That pleases me greatly if true to know that there’s some acknowledgment of that film having a lot of issues. The only thing that makes me call it into question is the fact that before The Last Jedi released there was all this talk about it being loved internally and that was a lot of the reason for Johnson getting the green light for a trilogy.
But what appears to have happened was that production for TFA was so problematic (Ford's leg, script issues of its own) that when TLJ started pre-production before TFA was finished, RJ was able to put in his own touches. JJ did have an outline. This was mentioned when TFA came out, but if you'll notice they stopped mentioning it when TLJ came out.
JJ is apparently making TROS more of a sequel to the story points he started in TFA than a direct continuation of TLJ, but he will still acknowledge that it happened. He can't just ignore it completely.
To give a little perspective on this person in the know, they have seen a lot of what is going on in TROS. A lot. And as for their "fan status", they are a long time fan of the movies even before getting to where they are, they love the OT, have problems with the PT (thinks Duel of the Fates is the best bit, naturally), but despite that, they are still able to love Star Wars as a whole, and are happy that new movies are being made. So keeping that in mind, with what they have seen of TROS (which seems to be sizable) they are extremely positive that it will "restore balance to the fandom" (my words, not theirs). When the teaser finally dropped, they were so excited to see everybody gushing over it as they apparently knew some of what was going to be shown.
From this and some other things they've mentioned, I truly think TROS will truly a good experience, and will be a good endcap to the Skywalker saga.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is my personal thoughts regarding the what the title means: I've been thinking for several weeks now (since the rumor that the title was going to be "Skywalkers") that Rey will create a group of Force users that don't pigeonhole themselves into 'light side " or "dark side", they will simply use the Force and they will call themselves "Skywalkers". It will become a title of sorts. That's just my speculation, my person in the know refuses to say if they know anything about this either way and I'm not going to push them for answers and ruin our friendship.
04-13-19, 10:53 PM
#1129
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
^ That’s interesting, but the sequel trilogy has already burned up most of my goodwill, and I really don’t trust Disney, Kennedy, or Abrams to right the course. There were so many shit-poor story choices made in the TFA and TLJ that I’m not sure if anyone can salvage the sequel trilogy at this point. The characters, plotline, and mythology have been so thoroughly trashed that I don’t think anubody can guide it back on the right path.
I’ve pretty much written off the Star Wars franchise, and I don’t have much passion or enthusiasm for it, just a sort of curiosity as to how badly Kennedy and her crew will grind it into the ground.
I’ve pretty much written off the Star Wars franchise, and I don’t have much passion or enthusiasm for it, just a sort of curiosity as to how badly Kennedy and her crew will grind it into the ground.
04-13-19, 10:59 PM
#1130
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
^ Did you enjoy the prequels?
04-13-19, 11:39 PM
#1131
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
Regarding milo bloom’s post, while that all sounds great I just am very cautious about getting myself hyped for this movie. The trailer looks alright, but I’m not giddy about seeing the movie like I should be. I know I’ll be there and likely on opening night, but I don’t have the enthusiasm I did for VII and even VIII (before I saw it and my opinion truly formed after seeing it a few times).
I’m not ready to write off Star Wars as a franchise entirely, but the Sequel Trilogy is always going to leave me with a sour taste I feel as to what could have been. The damage done particularly to the character of Luke is never going to sit well with me. Even if he gets a better arc in The Rise of Skywalker flashbacks and a Force ghost version of the character (which is what I’m guessing we’ll get) isn’t what I wanted.
I’m not ready to write off Star Wars as a franchise entirely, but the Sequel Trilogy is always going to leave me with a sour taste I feel as to what could have been. The damage done particularly to the character of Luke is never going to sit well with me. Even if he gets a better arc in The Rise of Skywalker flashbacks and a Force ghost version of the character (which is what I’m guessing we’ll get) isn’t what I wanted.
04-14-19, 04:09 AM
#1132
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
I've been thinking more and more about the 'return' of the Emperor (in whatever form) as I wasn't too keen on it at first. But the more I think about it, THIS could be the plot point that ties the ST with the PT/OT and makes it worthy of being called 7,8,9. I think it's a big risk to bring The Emperor back (in whatever form) as this could ruin the movie if it isn't executed right and comes off as shoehorned (much like I felt regarding Anakin's turn in ROTS as the whole Trilogy fell like a House of Cards after that terrible scene).
My biggest problem with the ST so far hasn't specifically been about the quality of movies, but more about the overall arc and how these movies tie with the PT/OT? The return of the Emperor (if handled correctly) could be that plot point that makes it all worth it in the end. It makes more sense that the Emperor is behind this all rather than Snoke from a storytelling perspective. But JJ has to execute in a way that doesn't diminish ROTJ, and at the same time gives credence to the ST. It's a hail mary and I'm 50/50 on whether it will work or not, but I have to say this particular plot point has gotten me interested on where they are headed with the storyline more than anything so far in the ST (even Luke's arc).
My biggest problem with the ST so far hasn't specifically been about the quality of movies, but more about the overall arc and how these movies tie with the PT/OT? The return of the Emperor (if handled correctly) could be that plot point that makes it all worth it in the end. It makes more sense that the Emperor is behind this all rather than Snoke from a storytelling perspective. But JJ has to execute in a way that doesn't diminish ROTJ, and at the same time gives credence to the ST. It's a hail mary and I'm 50/50 on whether it will work or not, but I have to say this particular plot point has gotten me interested on where they are headed with the storyline more than anything so far in the ST (even Luke's arc).
04-14-19, 06:10 AM
#1133
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
Not really. I find them to be passable as long as I can squint and tune out most of the nonsense and crap, and just follow the broad strokes. The underlying story is mostly solid, though I think introducing Anakin as an eight year-old in Ep I was a mistake, and it really should have started with Anakin as a teenager, around sixteen or seventeen.
This is where the sequel trilogy falls apart for me in a way that the prequels never did. It does an awful job of handling the established characters and is telling the wrong story. I can sort of overlook the awful dialog in the prequels, Jar Jar Binks, and Anakin killing a bunch of children (barely — weren’t you trying to make him sympathetic, George?) but nothing in the sequel trilogy, at least since TLJ, resonates with me at all. It all just feels hollow and vapid.
Ultimately, I think Lucas should have acted as an executive producer and let others write and direct the prequels.
This is where the sequel trilogy falls apart for me in a way that the prequels never did. It does an awful job of handling the established characters and is telling the wrong story. I can sort of overlook the awful dialog in the prequels, Jar Jar Binks, and Anakin killing a bunch of children (barely — weren’t you trying to make him sympathetic, George?) but nothing in the sequel trilogy, at least since TLJ, resonates with me at all. It all just feels hollow and vapid.
Ultimately, I think Lucas should have acted as an executive producer and let others write and direct the prequels.
04-14-19, 09:29 AM
#1134
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
No, as others have noted, it's still on. Apparently, since it's going to be outside the Skywalker saga, LFL doesn't feel it will be a problem. You have to admit, TLJ has some great sequences, and isn't a terrible Star Wars movie - it just doesn't feel like it should have been the followup to TFA.
04-14-19, 09:47 AM
#1135
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
It seems par for the course these days that studios have a revolving door of directors before the movie (or in this case, trilogy) is actually filmed. I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if Disney rides the Rian Johnson train until the last minute before hiring a studio friendly director at the 11th hour to helm the next movie(s).
04-14-19, 09:56 AM
#1136
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
I don't necessarily think Star Wars needs a V For Vendetta ending.
04-14-19, 11:53 AM
#1137
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
I think you're off. My guess is that the medal is completely unrelated and is Leia finding it and reminiscing about Han. It would make sense that footage of that nature may exist. I'm in the camp that is pretty sure the wreckage is the 2nd Death Star. Palpatine wasn't on the 1st so it makes no sense he'd be in it now (if in fact the two are actually tied). My take is that Rey (created by Palpatine the same way Anakin was) senses a dark presence and that leads them all to the wreckage of the Death Star, where they find Palpatine, biding his time until the one whose body can contain his power and act as a vessel came to be.
I believe the footage of Leia is all recycled from cut TFA scenes. It is most likely Han's medal from DS1 though.
04-14-19, 12:01 PM
#1138
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
There were a couple of decent sequences, but I disagree. Rian not only shit all over the franchise, but it is all just a bad movie. But that's for a different thread. The hate for RJ is real. And big. I am surprised they would still allow RJ anywhere near future SW movies to be honest.
SW goes on a break after E9, and most likely returns with whatever the GOT guys are up to.
04-14-19, 12:13 PM
#1139
DVD Talk Hero
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Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
Agreed. Unfortunately this is how I am starting to feel about the sequel trilogy as well.
I was OK with the overall story of TFA. Wasn’t thrilled with some of the seeds planted ... but OK with the arc. In TLJ, I liked that Rian Johnson pulled some of the errant weeds that grew from those seeds and seemed to do some course correction away from a genetic destiny. Some of his other decisions were pretty bad though. As of now, just the title for Episode IX craps all over what I have always wanted.
Just my opinion.
PS — to all of you who keep saying Kyle Ren is unredeemable because he killed Han Solo ... can I point out that he also technically killed Leia but nobody mentions that.
That said ... I still believe the Rise of Skywalker will be the redemption of Ben Solo/Skywalker ... he learns that grampa Vader killed billions of innocent people, wiped out an entire religious order, and was still redeemed in his final moments (a storytelling decision I disagree with). He then learns that he can embrace the Skywalker in him and achieve full redemption.
PSS — on a completely unrelated note ... I know the ship has sailed, but if Princess Leia were ever to be recast after Carrie’s passing ... Vera Farmiga. Too young for the story being told now, but she totally has the look.
Last edited by Abob Teff; 04-14-19 at 12:19 PM.
04-14-19, 01:28 PM
#1142
DVD Talk Hero
04-14-19, 02:51 PM
#1143
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
I’ll disagree a little bit as I feel the PT also told the wrong story. It started off down the right path ... as much shit as it gets for the intergalactic politics angle, this was the start of the Empire. Where the PT veers off course is when it turns into Anakin’s story. Yes, Anakin plays a major part in the evolution of the war to come, but this never should have become about the Skywalker family.
I’ll disagree here. The OT was mostly Luke’s story set against the backdrop of defeating the Empire. So it stands to reason that the PT would likewise be Anakin’s story set against the backdrop of the final days of the Republic and the beginning of the Empire. Following that throughline, the ST should have followed Luke’s offspring and the rebuilding of the Republic. There’s a certain narrative symmetry there that the ST broke without a third generation Skywalker in the lead and a rehash of the Empire/Rebellion dynamic from the OT. It’s like Disney said Since you didn’t like the prequels, here’s the story you liked better with new people. So here’s a new new hope living out in a desert wasteland. A new rebellion. A new Empire. New X-Wings. New TIE Fighters. A new Death Star. Another fallen Jedi Order in need of rebuilding. It’s just horribly cynical.
PS — to all of you who keep saying Kyle Ren is unredeemable because he killed Han Solo ... can I point out that he also technically killed Leia but nobody mentions that.
That said ... I still believe the Rise of Skywalker will be the redemption of Ben Solo/Skywalker ... he learns that grampa Vader killed billions of innocent people, wiped out an entire religious order, and was still redeemed in his final moments (a storytelling decision I disagree with). He then learns that he can embrace the Skywalker in him and achieve full redemption.
That said ... I still believe the Rise of Skywalker will be the redemption of Ben Solo/Skywalker ... he learns that grampa Vader killed billions of innocent people, wiped out an entire religious order, and was still redeemed in his final moments (a storytelling decision I disagree with). He then learns that he can embrace the Skywalker in him and achieve full redemption.
Yeah, I also think Darth Vader got off to easily in ROTJ. His redemption was more of being redeemed in the eyes of his son who refused to give up on him. Had he not died, he still should have been tried at space Nuremberg.
As for Kylo’s redemption, I think he’s a tougher sell not because he killed a beloved character, but because he’s going out of his way to be an irredeemable asshole. He’s idolizing Darth Vader and does everything he dan to be his vision of that evil. He wants to hurt people, whereas Vader fell to the Dark Side out of desire to protect someone he loved. Whereas Kylo is basically a school shooter. (Granted, the same could be said for Anakin when he slaughtered the younglings — Jeez, George, you had it in your head that you were going to make Anakin a tragic figure, but that sure as hell didn’t help make him sympathetic).
I wonder if, in this age of various malcontented youth, incels, and school shooters, having a guy who went apeshit and killed half of his school be shown as being redeemable with an “Oops, my bad,” and then riding off into the sunset with the girl sends a horrible message. (Reylo is a strong possibility if the two aren’t related.)
04-14-19, 02:53 PM
#1144
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
I wonder if, in this age of various malcontented youth, incels, and school shooters, having a guy who went apeshit and killed half of his school be shown as being redeemable with an “Oops, my bad,” and then riding off into the sunset with the girl sends a horrible message.
04-14-19, 02:58 PM
#1145
Moderator
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
If you mean because he shot out the command deck of the ship, that was his TIE ascot that did the shooting. He hesitated.
That said ... I still believe the Rise of Skywalker will be the redemption of Ben Solo/Skywalker ... he learns that grampa Vader killed billions of innocent people, wiped out an entire religious order, and was still redeemed in his final moments (a storytelling decision I disagree with). He then learns that he can embrace the Skywalker in him and achieve full redemption.
04-14-19, 05:49 PM
#1146
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
So why wouldn't redeemed Force ghost Anakin show himself to a young Ben Solo before he went dark and killed billions of people to set him on the right path?
04-14-19, 06:21 PM
#1147
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
BTW, here’s my guess on how the Emperor factors in - the movie starts with a flashback - Palaptine does something before his final conflict with Luke that sets in motion the story of The Rise of Skywalker. Then somehow factors into the end. My guess is that he’s not a part of the story throughout, but I don’t think Force Ghost either since that seems to be reserved for “good guys”.
04-14-19, 07:39 PM
#1148
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
Based on Anakin from the Prequels Force Ghost Anakin is probably too busy stalking/harrassing Padme in the afterlife to have time for Ben.
04-14-19, 08:44 PM
#1149
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
If Darth Vader never really killed the Emperor at the end of Return Of The Jedi there wouldn't have been a balance in the Force? And wouldn't pretty much make the new trilogy not make sense story wise?
04-15-19, 06:40 AM
#1150
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
I should preface this by saying that I still have hopes JJ made a really good film...
...with that said, I hate the title (although I'm 99 percent sure, like most of you, it's the name for the new order of Jedi that Rey will start - making her a "Skywalker," even though she's not one) and I hate the trailer even more. It just screams "fan service" to me, although JJ WAS kind of boxed into a corner by Rian when Snoke was killed off. I don't think he could have sold Kylo as the "Big Bad" in Episode IX, so the only choice was to bring back the Emperor...there's no way to establish someone new in a two-hour film with so many other loose ends that need tied up.
I don't expect a whole lot from the plot...I just hope JJ brings back some of the fun he incorporated so well into The Force Awakens.
...with that said, I hate the title (although I'm 99 percent sure, like most of you, it's the name for the new order of Jedi that Rey will start - making her a "Skywalker," even though she's not one) and I hate the trailer even more. It just screams "fan service" to me, although JJ WAS kind of boxed into a corner by Rian when Snoke was killed off. I don't think he could have sold Kylo as the "Big Bad" in Episode IX, so the only choice was to bring back the Emperor...there's no way to establish someone new in a two-hour film with so many other loose ends that need tied up.
I don't expect a whole lot from the plot...I just hope JJ brings back some of the fun he incorporated so well into The Force Awakens.
