Draven

It's 100% McAvoy and Fassbender for me. They make that movie. I am one of those who think they should have just made Magneto:Nazi Hunter and called it a day.

Plus, they pick shitty XMen to feature for the "first class" - should have started it with more well-known ones we haven't seen yet.

B5Erik

Really? You think they don't?

The box office performances of the only two official X-Men movies where he only makes cameos say otherwise...

rocket1312

...and yet both films outperformed The Wolverine, so Jackman can't be that big of a draw.

Remember, First Class had a lot going against it. It wasn't just Jackman who was missing. The entire cast was new and relatively unknown to the general public. It was also coming off of the two worst films of the franchise. It's no surprise the box office was what it was.

Apocalypse just sucks, which easily explains why it hasn't done well.

B5Erik

The Wolverine underperformed because Origins: Wolverine is considered to be the weakest X-Men movie and a lot of people tuned out for that reason.

And yet, the same cast, in a movie LED by Wolverine, had a big box office hit.

It's not that bad. It's actually pretty entertaining. It may not be as good as it should have been, but the hyperbole used to shoot it down is ludicrous.

fumanstan

Yeah let's be fair, the only one who things Apocalypse just sucks so far in this thread has been rocket, at least based on the votes in the poll. I think everyone else has been along the lines of it being good to just ok, just not particularly special or great.

As for Jackman and the success of the movies, it makes me think the general audience generally seems more in to the old cast in general then the new one.

rocket1312

Either Jackman is a draw or not. You can't have it both ways. I love Jackman as Wolverine, but his resume outside of the X-Men movies does not support the notion that he sells tickets.

I think that's a pretty disingenuous reduction of DoFP's success. DoFP was a movie starring the cast of FC (a cast whose collective star had risen exponentially between the two movies), teaming up with star studded cast of the older movies in a movie that was pretty darn good.

I'll admit, I've been by far the most vocal detractor of this movie here, but the reviews and the box office speak for themselves. Maybe it's not the trainwreck that I make it out to be, but it's at the very least a mediocre "X-Men" movie and taken as a pure superhero spectacle, Civil War blows it out of the water. Not exactly a winning recipe, Wolverine or no Wolverine.

Hokeyboy

I love all those massive Hugh Jackman blockbusters outside the X-Men movies, like:

B5Erik

So what character/actor combination in the X-Men cinematic universe is half as popular as Wolverine/Jackman?

Jackman as Wolverine is almost as popular as RDJ as Tony Stark. He's a star in that role, even if he's only had middling box office in other roles.

rocket1312

Only 3 movies in the series (X2, Last Stand, DoFP) have cleared $200 million at the NA boxoffice. The common denominator is not so much Wolverine as it is the "original cast" in general. The movies without the original cast have all performed similarly, regardless of Wolverine's presence. Jackman may be the face of the franchise, but he doesn't really move the needle in terms of dollars. Whatever the franchise is going to be, it's going to be that with or without him.

nando820

I think RDJ has more pull than Jackman, because Marvel movies have been better than Fox's for the most part

B5Erik

You are way off base on the X-Men box office numbers.

Look at the adjusted for inflation numbers for the series. Remember, some of those movies came out 15 years ago. No Imax or 3D premium tickets, either...

rocket1312

Fine, but that doesn't change the argument.

B5Erik

Actually, yes, it does.

Jackman is the ONLY name draw to the X-Men movies among the original cast. The actual X-Men movies WITH Jackman have all been big successes. The two without him have been box office disappointments.

Jackman as Wolverine is the main component of the X-Men movies that most fans want to see. They love him in that role. Without him the movies are a tougher sell.

Look at the numbers adjusted for inflation...

X-Men: The Last Stand Fox $306,996,900

X2: X-Men United Fox $305,848,800

X-Men Fox $250,395,500

X-Men: Days of Future Past Fox $241,381,100

X-Men: First Class Fox $156,026,100

X-Men: Apocalypse Fox $124,497,800


That's a pretty steep dropoff after the X-Men movies with Jackman as Wolverine. Two of the X-Men movies WITH Jackman are over $300 Million adjusted for inflation, and the other two are in the mid $200's. Huge successes. The ones without him? Not so much.

RichC2

There are so many factors at play there beyond just Wolverine / Jackman. Don't get me wrong, Wolverine was a big selling point for the original Xmen and Jackman as Wolverine became a draw with X2, but that'd also be ignoring the fact that Xmen 1 - 3 feature the more recognizable original cast with the mutants in familiar form set in modern day. And DoFP was a melding of the two casts. Basically having recognizable mutants set in modern day played by famous actors did better than less recognizable mutants set in the past played by a lesser known group. Shocker.

Brack

Why are people talking about Jackman not playing Wolverine anymore? He's starring in next year's Wolverine sequel, and I don't care what he says, if Fox throws enough money at Jackman, he'll play the character again.

Solid Snake

one can say that but some actors are beyond that. Bale wouldn't budge on not playing Bats unless Nolan was involved. And you can bet your ass that WB was upping the number each time they went back to him on it.

Brack

Fortunately Jackman never cared about not playing the role if a particular director wasn't involved. He's going to play him a tenth time, so I'm guessing he loved the character and the money was good. Jackman may be beyond the money, but I wouldn't compare Jackman to Bale's decision in this case. If this is the last time, I guess it'd be because he's played the chapter for close to two decades. But Jackman isn't above making crap movies, unlike Bale, who's been a little bit more selective, though not immune to making crap films.

nando820

a Deadpool and Wolverine movie then he can retire

B5Erik

It's not money, and it's not a willingness to play the character. It's age.

Jackman has just reached a point where the physical toll is too great for him to continue. I'm 7 months older than him and I couldn't do it, even with a year to prepare.

Solid Snake

It's a bit different in how both characters are made.

Singer created the franchise but the character is a lot of what Jackman brought from the source material to the point where he owned it immediately. And that only became more apparent when he was going to insane lengths to dedicate himself to get the body. I don't think Singer is to credit the character where it's more Jackman making him as strong as he was by his dedication to the source. The character has never been better than in The Wolverine.

Bale's Bats is VERY ingrained in Nolan's interpretation of the character and the character world that influences him. To where, source influences aside, one can say that the Nolan Bats is totally something from Nolan's direction via his worldbuilding.

Jackman is, to a degree, willing to admit that his love for the character has blinded him to not see the quality coming out of it. He has mentioned how Origins never went to where it should have. He can be seen to be a guy blinded by his love of something to the point where he gets, cheerfully, stupid for it.

This is such a loss to how great that could be. Just...the fight scene alone would be worth admission.

Yeah...but were you ever as fit as he has to be... based on Jackman's dedication to Logan? Even out of it... he's insanely fit.

He got fucking huge for The Wolverine...but then when it couldn't get into production w/ shit stopping it... he leaned out a bit afterwards but still. He is insanely dedicated to Logan.

Why So Blu?

Steroids or HGH rock.

Why So Blu?

But in response to the reason why the newer films have grossed lower amounts it really is because the general movie-going audience only wants to see Jackman as Wolverine - he is the main draw. Now the nerds aka the silent majority ARE tired of Wolverine being in a every fucking film and acting as the defacto leader, which is why First Class, and to a certain extent, Apocalypse excel.

The first Wolverine film had a couple of cool bits but was ultimately garbage but the extended cut of the second film was terrific along with the Rogue Cut of DOFP.

Solid Snake

FC is like 75%, probably lower, solid. It's those goddamn X Kids and villains. They're the worst thing about it. Apocalypse fails cuz it's so much shit w/o any sort of value to have it there. It's a shit ton of fat. Kind of sweetens the meat but it's still just pointless to keep so much of it at the end to swallow it up.

I don't mind Logan being in an X film. I just tire of him being so goddamn of a lead to when it's really Logan and some other freaks instead of an ensemble. I'll let the first one pass cuz that's a neat way to introduce it all.. but then X2 makes it VERY Logan centric. X3 continues w/ him as a lead. DoFP actually handles it very well where he's a motivating/supporting character to the cast. He kicks it off but after that he's along for the ride in DoFP.

stingermck

Wolverine sells. Period. Try to find an X-Men comic from 1970's to now that doesnt have Logan front and center. Marvel kills Logan and they still have Old Man Logan running around in the current stories.

Again, Wolverine sells. He is the X-Men.

Solid Snake

A solo series is one thing.

A team ensemble should be an ensemble. I'm not saying Logan's NOT in all the money shots of a X-Men issue, he tends to be in a lot of them... but it's very much an ensemble series that at time takes in a team focus but also a singular character focus as well on a variety of characters in the team. Logan can be one of them and so have others. That doesn't work for movies but it is an issue where Logan is your fucking lead a lot of the time. And Logan wasn't as hot as he was in the 1970s as you may think. He's there and he's kicking ass and a prominent member but the world doesn't revolve around him and his issues either at that time.