Darknite39

I can't believe there's been no breaking news that the deal could end sometime tomorrow, as has been the case for a week now.

siddd5

The 'Tonight Show' name is meaningless. It was synonymous with Carson (even if it existed before Johnny). I always thought of Leno's show as Leno's show, not 'The Tonight Show with Jay Leno'

Conan felt disrespected to getting bumped 30 minutes, but gimme a break ... he could have gone on at 12:05 and his staff would have had jobs instead of severance pay for the next 8 months and Conan could have continued with his precious 'TONIGHT SHOW' name. AND, if the ratings continued to suck at 11:35 to 12:05, NBC could have pulled the plug on Jay and moved CoCo back to 11:35 eventually.

Its ultimately ALL ABOUT EGO. Jay's, Conan's, NBC's.

Fist of Doom

The Tonight Show name is legendary in the comedy world. It launched the careers of a lot of stand-ups. It may not mean anything to you, but there's a reason Conan, Letterman and lots of others are angry about this mess. It's special to them.

And Conan could have left NBC five years ago and made as much or more money at Fox or ABC.

Count Dooku

But that never was going to happen.

Jay, back at 11:35, will quickly return to his former ratings and #1 position, and by the Fall of 2010 NBC would have wanted to expand his show to an hour.

NBC wouldn't bother trying to push Conan back into his old 12:35 time-slot. They would just take him off the air, and continue to pay him while keeping him from working for another network.

It's easy to say that moving The Tonight Show back 30 minutes isn't a big deal, but for Conan what NBC decided to do was the handwriting on the wall about where he ultimately stood at the network, and it was better for him to get out now and start over at FOX as soon as possible.

RoyalTea

siddd5 -

care to expand on this statement you previously made:why are you sure he won't pay any money to his staff?

kefrank

I'll be the first to admit that ego is certainly involved in this situation for all parties. That being said, I think your assessment is an oversimplification. There's a reason that Conan stayed at NBC and waited out this opportunity for 5 years instead of jumping ship for lucrative offers from other networks - he genuinely loves the Tonight Show franchise and having that seat meant something to him. It's been clear well before this whole dustup that he respects the Tonight Show legacy and that's why the refusal statement he issued recently doesn't ring entirely hollow. Of course, his pride has played a part in the decision as well, but I do think that's balanced against at least some real principles. Moving the show to start a little later is one thing...putting on an almost-identically formatted show with a different host directly in front of it for a half hour obviously devalues the Tonight Show, even moreso than the current incarnation of the Jay Leno Show already has.

"The Tonight Show" is mostly just a name to me as well, but I do believe Conan is sincere when he expresses that it is much more to him than merely a name.

Luds

Well, Conan could have accepted the "bump" to midnight and put up...

Count Dooku

With regards to the fate of Conan's employees:

Once Conan settles his hash with NBC, it is expected that he will move to FOX, but when that new show begins is up in the air, probably Fall 2010 at the earliest.

Would Conan expect his people to sit around, unemployed, for 9 months waiting for his new show to go on the air?

He would have to pay them out his own pocket to keep them from finding other jobs or just returning to NY.

Jay G.

It's not all about ego. It's also about money and ratings. Earlier time slots mean higher ratings, and thus more money.

Conan may think he deserves an 11:35 spot, but so did NBC, and several other networks. This is why NBC promised the Tonight Show to him 5 years ago, because they felt he could pull in the ratings, and they didn't want him in that time slot on a competing network. Even now, after his ratings slump on NBC, Conan will get that time slot on another network.

Jay had the ego to think he could pull off a talk show at 10pm, and NBC apparently thought that adding another talk show to their nightly lineup was NOT the worst idea ever. Both were wrong.

NBC screwed itself by locking both hosts into long-term contracts. NBC tried to weasel out of their agreement with Conan by trying to move the timeslot of the Tonight Show (which has always aired at 11:35). Conan balked at what should rightfully be viewed as a demotion. And it wasn't just screwing over Conan, but the shows that follow him as well.

I'm also not so happy about all this discussion of a host's responsibility to his staff. Should every show continue to air until its run into the ground and canceled, no matter how the show runners are being handled, just to keep its staff employed? Should Seinfeld have run for 10 more seasons so the crew could've kept their jobs? Is it okay that The Simpsons has gone on 5-10 years too long because it kept people employed? By all accounts, Conan is doing more for his crew than anyone else in the business would, or would be expected to.

RobLutter

I read a number that the Tonight Show staffers would be splitting around 30-40 mil severance apart from whatever Conan gets. I'd assume though that he's going to sign a deal relatively quickly and they're going to have plenty to do (coordinate building of sets, ramping up guests for the new show, writing new sketches, etc etc). They'll have shit to do and money to keep them going, don't worry.

Count Dooku

It's easy to say that from a viewer's perspective that you would rather see a TV show go off the air than continue to produce sub-par seasons.

But if you are a producer or star, who actually knows and has personal relationships with the people who work for you, making the decision to stop a show and put people out of work SHOULD BE a difficult decision.

TheMovieman

Yeah, once this whole deal with NBC is done, I'm sure he'll get a deal with FOX (more than likely) and then, like they did for The Tonight Show, will work for months getting the new show ready.

wirefan

Minor problem with that... what's to prevent NBC from bumping him to 12:35 a month down the line or to say 4:30am? NBC just should have fired him if they truly believed this was an abysmal failure - the problem was they wanted not only to bring Leno back to the Tonight show, but they wanted to avoid paying out Conan's contract and also avoid running the risk of him setting up a competing show right away.

From his comments, it's apparent that Conan's goal was to become a host at the 11:35 slot (and ideally doing it on NBC). When his contract was up in '04 he realized he has some leverage and told NBC give me a path to doing this show or I'm going elsewhere to get the opportunity. NBC agreed to give him the job in 5 years so Conan stuck around, and after 7 months on the job, NBC pushed him back from that time slot, and it was just a matter of time before he got pushed back to his previous timeslot.

Suppose a company agrees to a CEO progression and said you'll become CEO in 3 years (to prevent you from bolting to another company). AFter a few months on the job, they tell you we're naming a "super-CEO" who'll be above you.... we think you did a shitty job in the 7 months you were on the job, but we don't want you to go elsewhere and we don't want to payout your contract.... so we're still letting you keep the CEO title (thus we are technically still honoring our contract). Oh and there's nothing really preventing us from creating jobs above your CEO position pushing you further down the ladder or re-locating you to Iceland. Just so you understand we're not firing you and you will remain "CEO", but if you want to quit....

Count Dooku

The New York Times reported that Conan's representatives were trying to get NBC to go up to 12 million dollars, and NBC (by its own statement) was offering "millions" of dollars.

I don't expect that they will be booking guests and writing sketches in April for a show that goes on in October.

I'm not worried because I am confident that CoCo would take care of his own, just like he did during the writer's strike.

TheMovieman

Of course they won't be booking guests but working on new sketches? Why not? They got the free time anyway and he's going to be paying his staff, so might as well. Take a month off to sort of unwind and then get to work.

Off topic, but I didn't like those steps on the set. Might've just been me (likely) but it seemed kind of awkward when guests would come and shake hands while stepping up...

Darknite39

Holy shit. No wonder they're not dumping Jay--they couldn't even if they wanted to.

Leno has an ironclad, “brilliantly written” agreement that guarantees his production company a staggering $150 million if NBC Universal axes his flailing primetime show, an insider said.

http://tvbythenumbers.com/2010/01/20...-million/39434

RoyalTea

kind of odd for a man who claims to rely so much on "handshake deals."

Jimmy James

Right. This was well known even before the cancellation. They gave him a two year commitment. They wanted to breach that contract, so they had to give Jay what he wanted. So much for the idea that Jay didn't want this...

Count Dooku

Most of the jokes are topical so they can't be written in advance.

Jimmy James

True, but characters and bits that aren't totally topical can be worked on well in advance. If Conan is leaving his IP, he'd be well advised to get some folks working on the task of coming up with quality new stuff ASAP.

Count Dooku

yeah... what he said

Jimmy James

In a way, yes. In a way, no.

Conan got a very standard sort of deal because that's what agents and managers are used to. Jay got a deal with an ironclad 2 year guarantee because he hasn't negotiated 2000 deals in the past year and isn't beholden to the Hollywood format.

TheMovieman

Not talking about topical jokes. Skits are different and can be used to later insert whatever is topical. And like I said, they are going to have the free time anyway, why not get some work done in the meantime?

Edit: Which is what Jimmy James also said.

Count Dooku

I'm not saying that it won't take some planning to come up with new material especially with the IP issue, but the truth is that comedy writers don't work that way.

Think how much better SNL would be if they spent the summer stockpiling written sketches instead of working on their weekly deadline while the show is in production.

Plus, Conan's writers would probably want to take what amounts to a paid leave as an opportunity to work on a screenplay or TV pilot.

RoyalTea

some of Conan's best bits from Late Night were filmed in advance when he went away from the set and weren't topical at all (example: 1864 baseball)

If he and his writers had 8/9 months to make more of these types of bits, his new show would be #1.