MScottM

[QUOTE=Also, why does everyone get so rapey and dark in the zombie apocalypse? I want to see that movie where people work together and rebuild.[/QUOTE]

Mostly because that is human nature, unfortunately. You could put together a group of people that will work together and make progress toward a better future and then a smaller group of people will see what you have (but not the work that goes into getting there) they will want what you have without wanting to make the effort to work toward it. So they will try to take it. (think the prison).

It is also an easy way for them to show that "civilization" has collapsed. Show things we take for granted in our everyday life being taking away with no recourse except the power each individual can wield.

There was a comment made on The Talking Dead last night after the show that kind of made me mad. I don't know which of the show runners said it and I can't quote it exactly but it was something along the lines that Rick is starting to see and come around to the kind of thinking that Shane had and was starting to understand that better. I call "Bullshit" on that.

Rick has proven himself to be TOTALLY different in his motivations than what Shane was. Rick deeply cares about the welfare of those that have placed their trust and faith in him. Shane cared about Shane. Rick is willing to put his life on the line for others. Shane shot others so that he could escape while they were being eaten. Rick is a good man in a bad situation, Shane was a waste of life from the start and the situation just made his flaws rise to the surface quicker.

Just because a man has the "intestinal fortitude" to do what has to be done to save himself and those he cares for even if it means that he or someone he cares for pays the ultimate price doesn't mean that they are 'scumbags" or are willing to be depraved about all aspect of their lives and/or are willing to do anything to survive. Their are clear lines and so far I haven't seem one that Rick has crossed that I wouldn't have also. You don't see Rick randomly killing people and stealing from them, you don't see him taking advantage of other groups, you don't see him abusing anyone for the enjoyment of it.

The Governor had some of what Rick does but instead of helping others, he killed and stole from them, taking what he thought he needed and killing those not in "his" group. Terminus could have accomplished what Rick is trying to do but since their bad experience, they did a complete 180 on what they started as. Rick has experienced many things that everyone hopes they will never have to experience but he has been able to hold on to who he is.

He could have become a "warlord" like the Governor became. He could have delved into depravity and became what the people of Terminus became but so far, he has done nothing that a good man in a bad situation wouldn't have done with a clear conscience. The only thing I can see that might remotely be used against him was leaving the hitchhiker on the road side and even that was just a case of not being able to save everyone in the world. So that was just a judgment call, neither good nor bad.

DJariya

EW.com has a little write up and interview with Scott Gimple. He says he has big plans for Morgan.

hanshotfirst1138

Not entirely sure how practical that low-cut shirt is though .

Looked like it to me.

There was a scene after the credits with him which led into Talking Dead.

It was like The Walking Dead meets 24. I'm surprised Nicotero directed this one as opposed to someone who was more a TV vet, but given all of the FX in it, maybe he was picked because he knew his was around them?

I'm assuming it was just to show that they were initially "good," then when the psychos showed up, they had to become worse Nietzsche-style to stop them, and were too far into the darkness to stop.

So what were they killing people for now, supplies and cannibalism?

I was thinking the same, I was certain they'd cut away, and could've lived with it, to be honest :sick:. Certainly earned the TV-MA rating.

The whole storyline is kind of foolish, even if he is telling the truth, what are the chances that anyone is alive in Washington and has the equipment to do anything? Add to that the fact that it might towards a resolution for a show that AMC probably wants to keep running as long as possible and the show's notorious lack of direction, and it's doubtful.

Distrusting new arrivals is one thing. Lining them up one at a time, raping them, slitting their throats, and then eating them is another. They went way dark after what happened to them.

Given how hard it is to get society to function even with our social infrastructures in place, I must admit, this doesn't seem entirely unrealistic . But the "rape gangs" stuff runs through a lot of this stuff-Star Trek: The Next Generation, Mad Max, 28 Days Later..., The Stand, The Book of ELi, and so forth. Probably disturbingly realistic.

Knockout premier, not a moment wasted, nonstop carnage. Looks from the credits like they're still shooting film too . Interesting to see where they'll go from here, I'd have assume the Terminus arc would run longer. Rick was nuts, they were lucky to be alive, and the zombies would take care of everything, just get as far away from there as humanly possible. This thrives on extremity and controversy, but threatening the baby was WAY over the line, IMO. Interesting to see where things will go from here. The proverbial band is back together, sans Beth.

Neil M.

I don't think the Terminus story is completely done. You still have survivors that I'm sure will come back into play. I don't believe Tyreese killed that guy. It also sounds like this season is going to involve a lot of moral debates on whether they are any better than the Terminus people.

Big Boy Laroux

No way Tyreese killed the guy. His pussification continues. Seriously, though, did they not think to tie the guy to something or at least tie hands behind his back?

Big Boy Laroux

When did the terminus folks rape anyone? Maybe I don't remember that from last season, but I don't think there was any rape.

d2cheer

I just don't buy it. Based on what? Some coward rape squads in underdeveloped countries? No law we just turn to rape?

No its just an easy way to portray evil on TV and Movies is all.

Draven

I believe that was implied when they dragged the girl out of the box car as she said "not again". Meaning she wasn't going to be butchered.

No laws, no rules and a total might-makes-right society and you don't think people are going to take advantage of each other? Murders and rapes are common now. You don't think it wouldn't happen more? Especially when there is zero reason for it to happen less, and the fact that if you ARE a survivor at this point, you have already shown you are willing to do violence.

Neil M.

You don't think even a small percentage of people would turn to rape when civilization breaks down? Look at how many rapes occur in our society today. It's not unreasonable to think that more people would commit rape if laws didn't exist. However, the cannibals at Terminus were not the ones who did the raping. They were the victims. This is the whole moral dilemma that the season premiere has established.

Neil M.

Are you talking about the flashback? I think the implication is that the Terminus cannibals were held captive by Terminus rapists, a completely separate group of people. They somehow seized power over the rapists and took over Terminus, imprisoning the rapists and probably eating them.

sracer

I'd like to live on the planet that you do where people are apparently inherently good.

VinVega

I think he did kill that guy. I watched the episode again when it reran at 11pm and he said to Carol, "Don't go in there, I killed him." or something along those lines. Ty had a pussification attack, but he manned up at the last minute.

d2cheer

Such a bleak outlook...

Wow so no laws the majority of the world and apparently everyone here starts raping women and children like its Christmas? I think not. Those would be the first taken out or at least the ones I would target as they are useless.

VinVega

Agreed. If society breaks down, some seriously bad things are going to happen to people.

Shazam

Yeah just last day I was walking down the street and I tripped over at least two rapes and five dead guys.

MScottM

History of Terminus. The short story.

Group of survivors find and start a way station (Terminus) and advertise that they are open and want to help others.

Another group of survivors comes to Terminus and takes it over capturing the first group and raping and exploiting them.

First group somehow manages to take Terminus back and captures at least one of the gang that enslaved them, placing him in a container which Rick later opens.

First group, disillusioned by the treatment they received while trying to help others, now becomes the predators. They continue to lure other survivors in and now start practicing cannibalism.

Jazzbutcher

Am I the only left that reads the newspaper? This kind of shit happens in every war/military action that pops up.

During the Bosnian War, estimates on the # of rapes range from 12,000-50,000. Source: Wikipedia.

MScottM

Wow, have you ever read ANYTHING about history? People are lazy, all people. They want what they want now and they don't want to work for it. This includes everything you have, they will want it. Laws are a very thin veneer of society and the reason people don't commit more rapes and murders is because they don't want to pay for the crimes if they get caught. All societies only work so long as the MAJORITY of people that live in them are willing to follows the rules that govern them. When the majority stop playing by the rules, anarchy is ALWAYS what follows.

And by the way, in a ZA, just who would be the people that would take them out? You say you would target them? So while everyone else is just trying to survive the ZA, you would be going around the country looking for the people that are committing this act to put them down? Wow, that's dedication.

Groucho

dont worry the breakdown of society is coming soon. today gay marriage and "happy holidays". tomorrow rape.

Draven

Again, the people who have made it far enough to reach that point have already fought their way through the zombie apocalypse, have probably killed loved ones who were turned and managed to survive through the early days. Just because of that, most aren't going to be the nicest and most civilized of us. Those people were eaten by zombies.

Navinabob

The banter with Tyreese explains it all pretty well. Not everyone gets all rapey-murdery; there are still good and trusting people out there. However, their numbers are dwindling as the more aggressive murdery-types need resources an are happily killing their way to get it.

sracer

Bleak outlook or not, it's reality. You talk about "laws" as if the laws themselves are enough. There is an entity called, "law enforcement". THAT is required because... people aren't inclined to follow the laws that are written.

Without law enforcement, there will be those who will not voluntarily abide by the laws. Society breaks down and those who are hell-bent to survive at all costs will do whatever it takes to survive. A person in that frame of mind is thinking only about self. That level of selfishness leaves that person with an anything-is-fair-game mentality.

Is this really news to anyone?

Big Boy Laroux

Yes he SAID that. We all heard it. But the way he prevented her from going in, he was trying to cover himself IMO.

Raul3

Great episode.

And yeah, we will see more of the Termites during the season. I think the mentioned flashbacks in TD.

We don't usually watch TD, but my wife was too excited with the show that we watched TD too.

Big Boy Laroux

Right. That was more than implied. It couldn't have been more clear, even if they included flashbacks with HUGE letters spelling out "THEN" and "NOW", and a terminus woman explaining EXACTLY what happened to Carol for no apparent reason.

Oh wait, they did include that.