Josh Z

See post #911.

Jason

He even took the name and concept of Coruscant from the EU.

Michael Corvin

and Maul's double bladed saber from the comics. It's all his property to pull from so stuff like that isn't so bothersome.

Josh-da-man

I sort of remember that Lucas didn't want to call it Coruscant, but gave in because the name had been so deeply ingrained into the Star Wars mythos.

Spiky

He can have 'em. The PT also broke many things from the OT, not just the EU. That's the most egregious issue. I can understand if Lucas didn't want to care about various books and comics, but if you're going to the trouble of writing 6 movies on the same saga, you could at least keep them about the same thing.

Spottedfeather

What did the PT break from the OT ?

milo bloom

I suppose the biggest complaint is that Qui Gon also trained ObiWan in addition to Yoda. It's really only a short stretch to allow for ObiWan to have two teachers, especially when the OT already has instances of "truths" being subject to a "certain point of view".

Also the introduction of the midi-chlorians, but again the OT has mentions of The Force running in family lines, indicating a genetic correlation.
(The other one is the constant misunderstanding where people think midi-chlorians create The Force, when Qui Gon clearly explains they're merely "antenna" or "translators") Granted, the Star Wars saga could have done without the idea of the midichlorians, but again, there was a mention in a novel (prePT) that had Luke finding old Imperial technology for detecting Jedi.

Also, Leia remembering Padme. It's not a true memory, it's a Force echo. Why so many try to take this so literally, in a film saga filled with symbolism and allegory is beyond me.

I'm sure there's more, but quite frankly, the majority of is a case of the fans creating their own explanations over the years and then being mad when Lucas went his own way.

Travis McClain

I just chalked that up to Obi-Wan simplifying things for Luke's benefit. Plus, let's face it: honesty wasn't really his bag.

georgec

A certain point of view...?

whotony

You don't know what that means?

georgec

I'm referencing the conversation between Luke and Obi-Wan in ROTJ...

Travis McClain

"Luke, you're going to find that not everything is intended to be a factual statement."

milo bloom

Precisely. We know from the OT that Obi Wan will stretch the facts to fit the situation, it shouldn't have surprised anybody to see it in action in the PT.

whotony

you quoted the other guy with a question mark appearing as if you didn't know the reference.

georgec

That's what Luke says after Obi-Wan says his line...I feel like I'm being trolled.

Here's the video if you're somehow still confused. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jobWnQ__OPA#t=0m55s

My original line was a direct quote of Luke, who also asks the question, "A certain point of view?" The question mark is part of the quote. Are you clear now?

b2net

& I heard there is a blu-ray set coming...

Josh-da-man

"Luke, Darth Vader betrayed and murdered your father. And that Princess... don't get too friendly with her... she's... uh... bad news... just sayin'..."

Spiderbite

That's great.

It's funny because I am reading the Marvel comics line of Star Wars to my kid in order (a comic a night) because he recently went Star Wars crazy due to the Lego Star Wars games. Anyway, there is so much romantic stuff inferred in the stories between the triangle of Luke, Leia and Han that at times it gets almost creepy. I keep waiting for an odd question from my son on this.

This stuff was written right after the first movie so everyone knew there was sexual tension between them and saw it as a farm-boy making good and going after a princess with the older, wiser Han trying to shoe horn his way in. It works so well I have no idea why the fuck Lucas decided to make the "twin sister" storyline. There really was no logical reason for it.

I just kind of ignore that storyline along with my complete snubbing of the prequels. After watching ROTJ the other day for the first time in years, I have found that I can just live with SW and ESB and forget the rest. It just doesn't hold up very well (though a few scenes are still great) but the brother sister twist is unforgivable in my opinion.

Travis McClain

Ever watch From "Star Wars" to "Jedi": The Making of a Saga? Lucas says, on camera, that the impetus for that story development came when he had a placeholder spot in the Return of the Jedi screenplay to the effect of, "Vader says something to set Luke off." Sometime in a subsequent draft, it was decided that the only thing left for Vader to leverage against Luke and get him that upset would be to prey on Leia.

Curiously enough, that on-camera confession is nowhere to be found on the whitewashed Empire of Dreams documentary, which would have us believe that the entire saga was originally conceived by Lucas in its entirety back in the early 70s. If you can find From "Star Wars" to "Jedi" on VHS, I strongly recommend it. There are some admissions made there that will never again see the light of day, as they undermine Lucas's revisionist history.

Spiderbite

Trust me, I watched that documentary so many times as a kid on a worn VHS recorded from a showing on PBS that I could basically quote it (though I admit I haven't watched it in years but I had a copy of it from the old Letterbox boxset that I transferred to DVD several years ago).

The problem is that he could have set Luke off quite easily by going after Leia without the retarded twin sister storyline. Luke is in love with Leia from the first time he saw her projected by R2-D2. Luke left his important jedi training just to help rescue his friends from Cloud City. Watch Empire and you can see how much he loves her. All Vader would have to do is threaten and Luke would have done anything like the love-sick puppy he was.

And I know people always like to throw that nondescript comment by Yoda saying "there is another." But there could have been many different ways to use that line and still not have the main characters become siblings. Leia could have been strong in the force without having to be a sister.

It's just lazy storytelling if you as me. But hey, what's done is done. People have every right to defend it while I have every right to ignore it. It's just a big fucking storyline to ignore since it permeates every single story told after ESB.

Travis McClain

It's really pronounced in Splinter of the Mind's Eye, which was allegedly concocted as a fall back plan for a sequel in the event that Star Wars tanked and they had to proceed with a much smaller budget.

Given how much of a liar Obi-Wan tended to be, I always wondered if he hadn't just told Luke that the "other" was Leia to shut him up about it. I always liked to imagine that was the case, and that there's another Jedi out there somewhere living his or her life in complete oblivion. Harder to cling to that silly idea after Revenge of the Sith, though.

Aye, all the way around. I have no real interest in any of the EU novels not written by Timothy Zahn, but I still dig the original tie-in novels (the movie adaptations, the Han Solo and Lando Calrissian trilogies and the aforementioned Splinter). I like that era of Star Wars storytelling, before it became entirely obsessed with its fictitious self.

milo bloom

Wow, that's not a bad little fanvid. I mean it's kinda paint by numbers, but it's well put together (though the music seems odd).

JeremyM

Truth be told, the docs on the OT DVD set seem pretty honest and truthful. A lot of talk about the problems they had, the dialogue (I believe Ford's famous quote is cited), Lucas' "faster, more intense" directing style, etc. And the documentary about Episode One was very frank about that film, including the reactions from the crew after screening the first cut who were stunned by how awful it is. Granted, they later show them being pleased with the final cut which a lot of folks would disagree with, but overall there wasn't a ton of ball-washing going on, unlike say "Lord of the Rings" where the docs are just about how brilliant everything was and how brilliant Jackson is. (Which is somewhat true, but still

Anyway, that's why I don't get the whole disowning the originals thing, because he's honest enough about the flaws so why cover them up? They are a huge part of film history and should be preserved. I'm OK with the revisions I guess (Greedo shooting first is ridiculous, the end of Jedi minus ghost Hayden was a remarkable improvement, the rest, whatever), but keep both versions out there. But Lucas does tend to draw a line in the sand over some weird things....

Travis McClain

Not after seeing From "Star Wars" to "Jedi," they don't. Instead, all those things you mention are referenced come across as the cast and crew not fully understanding Saint George's vaunted "vision," and how he persevered against the elements of ignorance, weather and technological and funding constraints. Lucas is presented as the guiding light, rising above all these things.

JeremyM

Well, maybe you're right, it's been awhile but that is how I viewed them at the time. I did read "Secret History of Star Wars" and it is pretty bizarre how he tries to pretend he had it all mapped out since he was a 5-year old or whatever....