The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 2
07-03-08, 06:00 PM
#801
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The Dark Knight got ***1/2 out **** from Peter Travers [Rolling Stone] (who I often agree with in relation to how we feel about particular movies we both enjoy, but I haven't read nearly enough of his reviews to trust every one of his reviews).
Some quotes:
"The Dark Knight, director Christopher Nolan's absolute stunner of a follow-up to 2005's Batman Begins, is a potent provocation decked out as a comic-book movie."
"[Heath] Ledger... is mad-crazy-blazing brilliant as the Joker... If there's a movement to get him the first posthumous Oscar since Peter Finch won for 1976's Network, sign me up."
"It's enough to marvel at the way Nolan - a world-class filmmaker, be it Memento, Insomnia or The Prestige - brings pop escapism whisper-close to enduring art."
"The haunting and visionary Dark Knight soars on the wings of untamed imagination. It's full of surprises you don't see coming. And just try to get it out of your dreams."
Speaking of "surprises", there's something of a spoiler in the review"
It's just annoying to see such a blatant spoiler in a major magazine's review. But maybe I'm reading too much into it. I doubt it though. Guess I'll see on the 18th. I reckon the effect will be a bit diminished now that I see it coming. Oh well. I still can't wait to see it. Already got my tickets.
K
Some quotes:
"The Dark Knight, director Christopher Nolan's absolute stunner of a follow-up to 2005's Batman Begins, is a potent provocation decked out as a comic-book movie."
"[Heath] Ledger... is mad-crazy-blazing brilliant as the Joker... If there's a movement to get him the first posthumous Oscar since Peter Finch won for 1976's Network, sign me up."
"It's enough to marvel at the way Nolan - a world-class filmmaker, be it Memento, Insomnia or The Prestige - brings pop escapism whisper-close to enduring art."
"The haunting and visionary Dark Knight soars on the wings of untamed imagination. It's full of surprises you don't see coming. And just try to get it out of your dreams."
Speaking of "surprises", there's something of a spoiler in the review"
Spoiler:
It's just annoying to see such a blatant spoiler in a major magazine's review. But maybe I'm reading too much into it. I doubt it though. Guess I'll see on the 18th. I reckon the effect will be a bit diminished now that I see it coming. Oh well. I still can't wait to see it. Already got my tickets.
K
Last edited by Cornelius1047; 07-03-08 at 06:03 PM.
07-03-08, 06:17 PM
#803
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
In regards to Travers spoiler-it may or may not be who you think it is.
If it is, then I would say some of us saw this coming 3 years ago. Some (many?) of the common criticisms of the first film touched on this character with many people blaming the actor for essaying what was a poorly written part.
The solution to that is to utilize the character more effectively in the sequel, which it appears they've done. Also, knowing who the antagonists were going to be further suggests how a character like that can be used for maximum impact.
Speaking for myself, it would only be a huge shock if it didn't turn out to be that character.
hope I've been sufficently vauge not to spoil anyone else.
If it is, then I would say some of us saw this coming 3 years ago. Some (many?) of the common criticisms of the first film touched on this character with many people blaming the actor for essaying what was a poorly written part.
The solution to that is to utilize the character more effectively in the sequel, which it appears they've done. Also, knowing who the antagonists were going to be further suggests how a character like that can be used for maximum impact.
Speaking for myself, it would only be a huge shock if it didn't turn out to be that character.
hope I've been sufficently vauge not to spoil anyone else.
07-03-08, 08:09 PM
#805
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07-03-08, 08:33 PM
#808
DVD Talk Godfather
I bought and read the Killing Joke the other day and the "WHERE IS HE???" line at the beginning of the comic reminded of me the trailers where Batman says the same thing. Kinda neat.
07-03-08, 08:34 PM
#809
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Originally Posted by redrum
07-03-08, 08:52 PM
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With every clip, i say I won't watch it. And then one of you jackasses talk about how great it is and I break down and watch it.
I just watched this one. Just go ahead and give the Oscar to Heath. This is beyond any comic book villain. I mean, he truly is lost in that role.
I just watched this one. Just go ahead and give the Oscar to Heath. This is beyond any comic book villain. I mean, he truly is lost in that role.
07-03-08, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by redrum
Great clip, although that dialogue he says at the end about his father is almost identical to that scene in Ruthless People with the serial killer.
07-03-08, 09:43 PM
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I think it'll fit tho'. I've read that during the movie he is constantly giving different reasons for his scars, kind of like the comics, where there isn't a single origin for the Joker. I'd imagine that whole thing about his father is just one more of those incidents.
07-03-08, 09:50 PM
#815
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally Posted by redrum
Going to be a long wait.
07-03-08, 10:21 PM
#817
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Originally Posted by Ranger
Gosh, I haven't been this excited about a movie since the last Star Wars movie.
This movie really seems to have all the fanboys drooling.
This movie really seems to have all the fanboys drooling.
07-04-08, 12:10 AM
#819
07-04-08, 04:28 AM
#822
Banned
Really looking forward to this ever since Nolan knocked it out of the park with BB (Katie Holmes' bland part notwithstanding).
Probably been talked to death already (but didn't feel like wading through 33 pages just to find out), but wanted to add a
for PG over R-rated version.
Aside from the obvious financial advantages (and, after all, the huge profits is what keeps bring us audience members the sequels and the next projects), it really insults the audience's imagination to have to graphically display everything (as Hitchcock so famously proved in the Psycho shower scene...which had many convinced that the saw the knife entering Janet Leigh's body when, in fact, it was never shown).
Do you really want a scene such as the infamous 'fire extinguisher' scened in "Irreversible" in a Batman movie? If Joker picked up a crowbar and started smashing it downward to a victim offscreen, and the Foley artists did their job with the sound effects, and the DP did his/her job of capturing the horrified/repulsed reactions of the henchmen, isn't that more effective than showing the actual pulverizing of the victim? To me, having to show every nuance of the action is just lazy filmmaking.
IMHO, there is WAY too much overkill (no pun intended) already in today's movies (for instance, I find the brief outbursts of violence in SHANE far more effective than the ridiculously-extended gunplay at the end of the remake of 3:10 TO YUMA). Same with most action sequences...diminishing returns of the WAY overextended scenes. The iconic image of Steve McQueen's motocycle jumping the fence in THE GREAT ESCAPE was burned into our memories as kids...and was all the more effective because it happened once. Today's action filmmakers would have the stuntman repeat the sequence twenty or thirty times.
Bring back imagination to cinema. Allow the audience's minds to fill in the blanks.
Anyway, kudos for keeping Batman PG. Today's PG ratings allow plenty.
Probably been talked to death already (but didn't feel like wading through 33 pages just to find out), but wanted to add a
for PG over R-rated version.Aside from the obvious financial advantages (and, after all, the huge profits is what keeps bring us audience members the sequels and the next projects), it really insults the audience's imagination to have to graphically display everything (as Hitchcock so famously proved in the Psycho shower scene...which had many convinced that the saw the knife entering Janet Leigh's body when, in fact, it was never shown).
Do you really want a scene such as the infamous 'fire extinguisher' scened in "Irreversible" in a Batman movie? If Joker picked up a crowbar and started smashing it downward to a victim offscreen, and the Foley artists did their job with the sound effects, and the DP did his/her job of capturing the horrified/repulsed reactions of the henchmen, isn't that more effective than showing the actual pulverizing of the victim? To me, having to show every nuance of the action is just lazy filmmaking.
IMHO, there is WAY too much overkill (no pun intended) already in today's movies (for instance, I find the brief outbursts of violence in SHANE far more effective than the ridiculously-extended gunplay at the end of the remake of 3:10 TO YUMA). Same with most action sequences...diminishing returns of the WAY overextended scenes. The iconic image of Steve McQueen's motocycle jumping the fence in THE GREAT ESCAPE was burned into our memories as kids...and was all the more effective because it happened once. Today's action filmmakers would have the stuntman repeat the sequence twenty or thirty times.
Bring back imagination to cinema. Allow the audience's minds to fill in the blanks.
Anyway, kudos for keeping Batman PG. Today's PG ratings allow plenty.
07-04-08, 09:07 AM
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<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0Lo578I-HIA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0Lo578I-HIA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
07-04-08, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by creekdipper
Really looking forward to this ever since Nolan knocked it out of the park with BB (Katie Holmes' bland part notwithstanding).
Probably been talked to death already (but didn't feel like wading through 33 pages just to find out), but wanted to add a for PG over R-rated version.
Aside from the obvious financial advantages (and, after all, the huge profits is what keeps bring us audience members the sequels and the next projects), it really insults the audience's imagination to have to graphically display everything (as Hitchcock so famously proved in the Psycho shower scene...which had many convinced that the saw the knife entering Janet Leigh's body when, in fact, it was never shown).
Do you really want a scene such as the infamous 'fire extinguisher' scened in "Irreversible" in a Batman movie? If Joker picked up a crowbar and started smashing it downward to a victim offscreen, and the Foley artists did their job with the sound effects, and the DP did his/her job of capturing the horrified/repulsed reactions of the henchmen, isn't that more effective than showing the actual pulverizing of the victim? To me, having to show every nuance of the action is just lazy filmmaking.
IMHO, there is WAY too much overkill (no pun intended) already in today's movies (for instance, I find the brief outbursts of violence in SHANE far more effective than the ridiculously-extended gunplay at the end of the remake of 3:10 TO YUMA). Same with most action sequences...diminishing returns of the WAY overextended scenes. The iconic image of Steve McQueen's motocycle jumping the fence in THE GREAT ESCAPE was burned into our memories as kids...and was all the more effective because it happened once. Today's action filmmakers would have the stuntman repeat the sequence twenty or thirty times.
Bring back imagination to cinema. Allow the audience's minds to fill in the blanks.
Anyway, kudos for keeping Batman PG. Today's PG ratings allow plenty.
Probably been talked to death already (but didn't feel like wading through 33 pages just to find out), but wanted to add a
for PG over R-rated version.Aside from the obvious financial advantages (and, after all, the huge profits is what keeps bring us audience members the sequels and the next projects), it really insults the audience's imagination to have to graphically display everything (as Hitchcock so famously proved in the Psycho shower scene...which had many convinced that the saw the knife entering Janet Leigh's body when, in fact, it was never shown).
Do you really want a scene such as the infamous 'fire extinguisher' scened in "Irreversible" in a Batman movie? If Joker picked up a crowbar and started smashing it downward to a victim offscreen, and the Foley artists did their job with the sound effects, and the DP did his/her job of capturing the horrified/repulsed reactions of the henchmen, isn't that more effective than showing the actual pulverizing of the victim? To me, having to show every nuance of the action is just lazy filmmaking.
IMHO, there is WAY too much overkill (no pun intended) already in today's movies (for instance, I find the brief outbursts of violence in SHANE far more effective than the ridiculously-extended gunplay at the end of the remake of 3:10 TO YUMA). Same with most action sequences...diminishing returns of the WAY overextended scenes. The iconic image of Steve McQueen's motocycle jumping the fence in THE GREAT ESCAPE was burned into our memories as kids...and was all the more effective because it happened once. Today's action filmmakers would have the stuntman repeat the sequence twenty or thirty times.
Bring back imagination to cinema. Allow the audience's minds to fill in the blanks.
Anyway, kudos for keeping Batman PG. Today's PG ratings allow plenty.
And to defend the very same field I work in and study. Maybe you need to see it once or twice or etc. till it's right to you as the director. I'm not sure if that specific stunt over the fence was repeated or not, if it wasn't wow great first try. But to show everything is not lazy fimmaking, as you put it. I saw Irreversible's various scenes of graphic nature. And trust me, I'm pretty sure the director wanted you to know and see with your own eyes all that carnage was. Of course that at times can be overkill, but than how many movies didn't copy off of each other. I mean, when the Westerns were in their prime...how many of them came out in a year average. Thousands which over time became a few hundred. When Sword and Sandal epics were out, everybody made one to cash in..the Italians alone had found out at the end of that time that people were tired and they suffered heavily for it. It all depends on the nature of the film. It doesn't diminish the imagination at all. Sometimes there is a specific thing you want an audience to see, that their imagination cannot KNOW what it is correctly based on what you imagined it to be. And at times it's very extreme but if you think about it's fine. Some film's need that, if need be go for it.
on the action section, you can go either way. Sometimes a lot is good, sometimes no. Leone was good at that, but not everybody can be Leone. That's just an example for few action scenes of gunplay. Of course you can go all Hard Boiled and that works too, IF it works. Just depends on the story you want.
Last edited by Solid Snake; 07-04-08 at 09:19 AM.
