spsimmons

I'm going to be upset if Han gets killed and Luke doesn't appear til the end. That means no screen time together. That'd be a major bummer not to see them together again.

TGM

I don't give a fuck if Lucas likes the movie or not. Thanks for making the awesome toys George, now it's time for others to play in the sandbox.

bluetoast

That's....exactly what he fucking did three years ago.

Solid Snake

Technically Han hasn't been a character to give a fuck about in the films since ESB cuz he was pointless to be in RotJ. I don't give a fuck if Han dies in this or not. I want a good movie. Anything better than RotJ is good enough for me. Cuz that one is where it all started to go down. Super high moments of quality or not... RotJ was the massive dip down from SW and ESB.

I don't care who dies or lives. I just want it to be done in a quality narrative form that is kept is exciting, wondrous, and thrilling to see unfold.

Brack

RotJ was a dip in the sense that it was the lesser of the series. It's hardly bad, and still a great film. Nowhere near the start of the beginning of the downfall of Star Wars.

slop101

ROTJ was in no way, shape or form a "great" movie. I'd say it's just shy of even being good. Though it might seem good when held against the awfulness of the prequels.

Mabuse

Sorry, but it very much was. It's been discussed at length in this thread and in many others. There were shifts in approach, changes of producer, and carelessness throughout the production.

Solid Snake

it's got pacing issues, crap scenes, Ewoks, Han doesn't really do anything worth a damn, Vader is apparently some fat dude, tonal environmental shifts, etc.

It's got some damn fine highs in it. Some of the best... but jesus does it just dip to crap so easily too.

brayzie

ROTJ was my first Star Wars film so I thought it was awesome. But if you watch the films in order it's not cool that teddy bears take down the Empire.

Tattooine part II was awesome though even if Bobba Fett dies stupidly.
Luke and Darth Vader's battle was probably one of the best duels in the entire series so far. It wasn't choreographed great but it really did seem like they were trying to kill each other and it was timed perfectly with the music that starts up when Luke is hiding from Vader.

Mike86

Return of the Jedi is a step down from the first two and realistically there should have been four films originally if you ask me (one taking place after The Empire Strikes Back and before Return of the Jedi). That being said though I still like it overall. There's some stuff in it that doesn't quite work and aspects of it feel rushed but it's still overall a fun film and at the time was a satisfying closing act to the story being told.

Plus in all honesty despite it being weaker it contains some of my favorite parts of the Original Trilogy. I love stuff such as the scenes on Tatooine at Jabba's Palace, the throne room duel between Luke and Vader, the speeder bike chase, and some great space sequences with the Rebellion taking on the Empire. There's definitely a lot of good stuff in it despite it not being perfect.

Solid Snake

It's not that it isn't choreographed great it's that it's a fight about emotions. And it is choreographed great.

That fight scene is my favorite in this franchise. I'd probably call it the best one cuz it's soooooo filled w/ drama. The music is going. Vader's words and Luke's damn near losing it when Leia is mentioned. Just so well done. Add in that it's a very mobile fight. It goes around that location a bit. And then the lighting enhances it. The music. It's just perfect drama.

To make it even different, it's less about the actual fighting but the inner turmoil of the characters. It's really not a long fight scene either. It has pauses but the fight itself is very short. But again... it's the drama that makes it all the better.

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hanshotfirst1138

It has tons of audience good will from nostalgic fans who saw it as kids. It has the original cast, and lots of good will carried over from the previous installments, but it's weak, fails to pay off almost everything ESB set up, ties everything up too neatly, and nearly everything that's going to go sideways in the prequels is in it in smaller doses. It does have the good stuff with Vader and Luke, but it's mostly it's connection to the Holy Trilogy that gets it the audience love that it has when it does.

Oliver Clothesoff

ROTJ gets a pass simply because of the masterful editing at the end among the space battle, Luke vs Vader, and Endor fight.

And the Death Star battle special effects still hold up.

brayzie

The part where Darth Vader dodges Luke's thrust and instead of attacking him Vader instead just waits on the ground for Luke to hack away at his wrist with the lightsaber looked like a noticeable flaw to me. I also felt like there wasn't much skill in the way Luke was fighting, at least compared to other sword fights on film, for example The Mark of Zorro.


It is the best fight though. I only have Empire Strikes Back on DVD but I might have to track down ROTJ just for that scene.

Paul_SD

The duel in ROTJ was terrible to me. It could be used as exhibit A as to how inconsistent characterization is from the previous films to this one (or in other words, how characters completely change from acts 1 & 2 to 3) as well as being internally inconsistent.

Previously bad ass uber evil Dark lord Vader is suddenly mopey and whiny when Luke surrenders, then he apparently becomes evil again so they can have a 'dramatic' duel, then he becomes confused, until finally he changes his stripes altogether and pitches his father figure into the abyss.
Give me a fucking break.

It would be one thing if Vader was goading Luke into killing him so that, in Obi-Wan fashion he could be free of the Emperors physical influence and then be able to off him. But that isn't what happens at all. The entire duel, up to and including the aftermath, is this series of vacillations.
I don't want to kill you!
No, yes I do
No I don't
or wait, yes I do.
Nope. can't do it. I'll just let the emperor win the entire war. I won't sacrifice my own soul to help my friends win. Better we all just burn together as long as I can remain pure.

And then Vader, who just moments earlier was relishing the thought of corrupting his flesh and blood daughter (someone he probably has had far more interaction with over the course of their lives than he has had with his son- including a few good hours of one on one torture in the Death Star)- suddenly makes a 180 degree turn and turns hero?

Ugh.

People would never buy betrayals of character like that in any other story, but they lap it up with this one.
I'll never understand it.

spsimmons

I always thought of it as Vader bringing up Leia as a way to enrage Luke into lashing out and killing him. Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm sure Lucas didn't mean it like that, but I like to think that what it was about.

Paul_SD

But to what end? WHY would that be Vader's motivation- what is the end result he wants to achieve by being dead? He just wants to commit suicide?
Seems like there would be plenty of other ways to accomplish that, including trying to directly assassinate the Emperor.

The scenario I posited above- that he needs to be free of the Emperors physical influence in order to realize his objectives (killing the emperor)- might have been a motivation to break his earthly bonds. But unfortunately it just not backed up with any other scenes in the film. Nowhere in the film is it supported that Vader actually wants to kill The Emperor for whatever reason. And it's not even a cleanly motivated act at the end of the film. That action is after a lot of tennis-watching head turning by Vader until he finally decides "aw fuck it...why not"

This sudden, tremendous love and self sacrifice for his child sprouts out of fucking NOWHERE.

He does his damnedest to enfold him into their true religion (the one he has been a true believer and advanced practitioner of with much success for the last 20 years), but suddenly he pivots and renounces ALL OF IT on the spur of the moment- over the welfare of someone who is essentially a complete stranger to him. Fuck the blood lineage- the persons life experience, value system, peers, etc are all ALIEN to Vader if not right antithetical to his basic goals and objectives.

joe_b

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Here are two new screencaps of Leia and Rey (shown on Disney Channel, apparently). Potential spoilers/speculation:


And in collecting news: Yes, Grunberg did get his own damn Star Wars figure... Resistance pilot Snap Wexley.

Ky-Fi

Agree completely.

I don't hate ROTJ, and it's certainly better than at least two of the prequels, but of all six films, this is the only one to me that seems...tired. The second Death Star, the Ewoks, Han and Leia older and more boring...there was definitely a major shift in tone in this one compared to the first two.

Red Hood

Solid Snake

Wow.

Abob Teff

Fixed.

Mike86

Not really sure I understand this statement. They played the parts they needed to and their roles in Return of the Jedi weren't as action heavy but it didn't have much to do with them being older or whatever. I also don't see a major shift in tone. The film is pretty much in line with the first two. Like I've said I think the biggest problem it has is that certain aspects of it feel rushed.

Cellar Door

I think Leia is at her best in ROTJ. Her attempt to save Han from Jabba failed, but it was ballsy and her disguise was cool. Then she rocked the slave outfit and ended up taking out Jabba. Later, Leia and Luke on the speeder bikes is one of the best parts of the movie--really one of the coolest parts of the OT.

stvn1974

RotJ is awesome. You all are wrong. WRONG I SAY!