RocShemp

Ideally this'd be a "backdoor pilot" for Batman but at this point, I think we can abandon all notions of it being primarily a sequel to Man Of Steel.

JumpCutz

Not to worry, Superman will be featured prominently during the prologue and he shows up again near the end of the movie for a huge action set piece.

At least in the original draft.

Supermallet

Wallace Shawn for Wonder Woman or I quit!

JumpCutz

He's too old.

majorjoe23

Inconceivable.

Michael Corvin

Too fat.

Paul_SD

I realize that millions of people just love the character (and I was a huge fan as a kid, so I get it)...but honestly, Batman has no business being in a live action movie/property where his 'peers' are God-like. A super powered, lost civilization godess makes sense. A guy who's whole conceit is elaborately dressing up as bat because it will 'scare people' and then has to rely on vast stores of technology on top of that to get anything accomplished, should just stay in his cave and watch from the sidelines. If they relegate the character to an oracle-like commentary, he might work. Otherwise it's just going to be monumentally silly.

Josh-da-man

I heard Wallace Shawn was dead.

JumpCutz

Indeed.

He perished in fiery car crash a few years back along with Abe Vigoda and Kenny Baker.

Brack

Right, because Batman has never been surrounded by god like characters in the comics before. Besides, Batman is smarter than Superman. Always has been, always will be. Why make superpowers vs non-superpowers the issue?

taffer

Implying that only kids like Batman...


A goddess makes sense but a man dressed as a bat is too far-fetched?

PhantomStranger

Because Frank Miller back in the 1980s hated the idea of Batman and Superman being friends. Really, it completely stems from his idea that Batman can't stand Superman for some reason. For the 45 years before Miller, they were basically good friends.

The animosity never made much sense to me and I don't think it works very well in reality. Batman's mission was to protect Gotham...Superman protects the entire planet. Superman would be like, "Sure, Bruce- keep stopping those muggers in Gotham while I go into space and defend our planet from the latest intergalactic threat."

taffer

Actually it was John Byrne, not Frank Miller. Byrne's Man of Steel miniseries was the Post-Crisis origin of Superman and featured the first Post-Crisis encounter between Superman and Batman. In that miniseries they weren't friends and were uneasy allies at best. Frank Miller would then take their rivalry to absurd levels later on in The Dark Knight Returns.

Paul_SD

That's why I specifically said "live action".

Batman's whole conceit is "my costume is intended to strike fear and intimidate my foes" That might work in his own universe where there is no one with his resources or obsesses drive.
But when the rest of the people around him can level cities with their bare hands, and generally comport themselves like gods across the landscape, just who is going to be intimidated by him because he goes to all the trouble of donning a ridiculously baroque Halloween costume? It's one thing for him to be wielding all this technology- but it's a bridge too far that he has to do it while wearing a very ridiculous costume- at least in the context of a world with vastly more powerful characters literally flying around.

No. I was a big fan up until the point he got so overexposed and now DC is nothing but Batman 24/7. I'm burned out on this character now. Just like I'm not crazy about seeing another X-men movie that is really "Wolverine 6" guest starring a few other characters.

Paul_SD

I think both stories were done 1986.

Unfortunately, I think this does make sense as- even in the comic medium- these characters abilities and sensibilities are so diametrically opposed. There is a natural, inherent conflict there that is an obvious thing to mine for a storyteller.

Hokeyboy

TDKR pre-dated Man of Steel by several months. It was the first iteration of Supes/Bats anti-friendship that Byrne later ran with.

Michael Corvin

Did Iron Man not work with Thor?

Paul_SD

And there were two major differences in that case

1) tone- the Marvel stuff isn't so dreary, deadly serious. If anything it was flippant. That's the antithesis of the Nolan-ized world view DC is pursuing.
2) Iron Man's persona isn't about trying to be ominous and fear inducing. That's why I said if they just want to have Bruce use tech it's one thing. If they want him dressed as a bat and using tech, it crosses a line into something much different.

robin2099

You realize that using this logic none of the characters in The Avengers should have been included besides Hulk and Thor. Plus your putting way too much emphasis on the whole "Batman is supposed to strike fear in criminals thing."

DaveyJoe

So if Superman existed you wouldn't be afraid of Bruce Lee kicking your ass?

Paul_SD

Would Bruce Lee come across as more intimidating or more silly if he were dressed in a dragon costume with a dragon helmet/mask as he was dispensing exposition to Superman?

DaveyJoe

Nobody is scary during exposition. When fighting crime, Batman spends most of his time in the shadows. I would definitely be afraid of the guy who spends every night breaking multiple bones of my colleagues.

Paul_SD

it's about the character relating to the other superheroes and supervillians...not civilians.
what advantages does Batman bring to the table...that justify him wearing his costume...around beings that could crush him or reduce him to cinders with no real effort?
This is all in the context of which characters fit better in a Superman movie.
The thing is both Superman and Wonder Woman aren't performing or adopting a false persona when they engage in super heroics. That's their real face. Batman OTOH is a performance Bruce Wayne is giving. If the film is going to posit the opposite-that Bruce is the performance and Batman his natural state...are we going to see Clark and Diana roll their eyes at each other everytime Batman 'disappears' after an encounter. What good is hiding in the shadows when your engaging someone with x-ray vision and super hearing?

Hokeyboy

Off the top of my head:

• Superior tactical mind
• Endless material/physical resources
• Worldwide connections
• Information gathering/interrogation
• World's greatest detective/investigator

You need to stop, Paul.

DaveyJoe

Well you were talking about intimidation factor, which is something Batman employs against criminals, not Superman. My point is that you don't stop fearing a major threat just because there's a more powerful threat out there. I'm not a big comic fan, but from my understanding of the Justice League, Batman brings intellect and planning to the table. I thought he was kind of the master strategist. I think it depends on the execution, I know the Timm/Dini rendition of the Justice League was pretty popular among comic fans, so it can be done.

Having said that, I'd much rather see solo-Batman films. I think he's more interesting alone, and I'm not really into the other DC characters. I also don't care for Snyder's films, so I'm not very enthusiastic about this film. Since I'm a Batman fan I'll probably give it a chance, which means I need to watch Man of Steel eventually.