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Zack Snyder’s Justice League (Snyder, 2021) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

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Old 03-22-21, 08:48 AM
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Re: Zack Snyder’s Justice League (Snyder, 2021) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

If we’re posting lists of nitpicks, I made one through the first half of the movie in a failed attempt to stay engaged enough to watch the whole thing in one go, without falling asleep. It’s mostly lighthearted, but lengthy, so I’ll put it in spoilers.

Spoiler:

Why retcon in Superman’s dying screamwave? Did it come to Snyder after Batman v Superman or did they not have the budget left for the effect on that movie?

Why does the screamwave move in what appears to be a flat plane and how does it get underwater and how is still traveling in a flat plane when it makes it to Atlantis?

Wait, how do the mother boxes even know about Supes and if they were just waiting for him to die and scream about it, why not send a signal home in the thousands of years before Superman landed on earth?

Have the Amazons really had 150 - 200 people constantly staring at a mother box for thousands of years?

Is Wonder Woman now a daytime version of Batman for London now? How’s that work with holding down her cover job?

How can Wonder Woman’s bracelet bash create enough concussive power to blow out a concrete/stone wall that’s a couple feet thick without liquefying everyone in that room?

If the Amazon’s plan with their mother box building was to have a way to bury it in the ocean if anyone ever got too close to stealing it, it sure seems stupid to remove it from their carefully constructed collapsible building before collapsing it.

What source could Batman possibly have for info on Aquaman?

How does the world’s greatest detective not figure out Flash’s superpower until he throws a batarang at him?

If the parademons are locating the motherboxes purely on scent, wouldn’t one just sitting in Cyborg’s closet give off a stronger aroma than a handful of people who had been in the same building with it at some point days or weeks ago?

If the Amazons’ island is more than four miles offshore, the arrow of Artemis would’ve had to break the sound barrier on its 20-second flight. Where’s the sonic boom, Snyder?

Between having built their own giant bury-it-in-the-sea emergency building for the mother box and having tons of their people stare at it 24 hours/day for millennia, you’d think the Amazons would’ve done a better job at educating their people about the history of the damn thing.

If Atlanteans need air to talk, why does Vulko make a bubble and then start talking to Aquaman before he’s in it? And how does Aquaman hear him?

How did Darkseid and all his surviving henchmen forget the anti life formula was on the same planet where he lost the mother boxes?

Did team Darkseid pause their hellscape terraforming for several thousand years after they lost the mother boxes?

So the Amazons and Atlanteans come up with these grandiose plans to protect their mother boxes and humans are just like ‘let’s dig a shallow hole and chuck it in’? And the human strategy actually protects their box longer than the other two?

Why do Flash’s shoes explode as soon as he enters the speed force, but all his other clothing is fine?

Does Steppenwolf have a loincloth that matches his armor or is that just armor for a particularly long and flat penis and tail?

If Steppenwolf’s never been on earth and the Atlanteans lived on land when Darkseid was here and the parademons are relying on scent to track down motherboxes, how do any of the bad guys figure out anything about Atlantis or the fact that there’s a mother box hidden in the ocean?

So does Cyborg just randomly do background checks on anyone he sees at an atm and give them money if they need it and have lived a saint-like existence in a publicly documented fashion? Seems kind of like having a cure for cancer but only giving it to people you randomly bump into at the store who are super nice.

Why does Cyborg, master of all technologies, send Wonder Woman a message that looks like it was sent by a hacker in a bad 90s movie, right down to a digital version of a message made from letters cut out from different magazines?

So on the one hand, Cyborg can access any facility on earth, set up automated weapons systems to guard it and presumably counterfeit legit orders to the military, but his ideal hiding place for the mother box is a 2-foot hole in the ground. On the other hand, it works. Seriously, how can the parademons figure out the one in Atlantis, yet be confounded by several inches of loose dirt?

I get that Atlanteans underwater movement basically boils down to some kind of magic particular to their race, but how does Steppenwolf instantly do the same?

When parademons kidnap people, why do they all stop at the exact same spot considerably outside the lair to strip their victims of personal effects and drop them on the ground?

Why would a group of heroes who each have a much faster option walk up many , many flights of stairs together?

Given that Wonder Woman can move fast enough to deflect individual bullets fired from a fully automatic weapon, why does she resort to essentially normal human speed when fighting Steppenwolf hand-to-hand?

Why was Aquaman swimming around Gotham harbor?
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Old 03-22-21, 09:01 AM
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Re: Zack Snyder’s Justice League (Snyder, 2021) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Finished this up last night. Very much felt like a Spy Kids movie for adults.
Old 03-22-21, 09:12 AM
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Re: Zack Snyder’s Justice League (Snyder, 2021) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by maxfisher
If we’re posting lists of nitpicks, I made one through the first half of the movie in a failed attempt to stay engaged enough to watch the whole thing in one go, without falling asleep. It’s mostly lighthearted, but lengthy, so I’ll put it in spoilers.

Spoiler:

Why retcon in Superman’s dying screamwave? Did it come to Snyder after Batman v Superman or did they not have the budget left for the effect on that movie?

Why does the screamwave move in what appears to be a flat plane and how does it get underwater and how is still traveling in a flat plane when it makes it to Atlantis?

Wait, how do the mother boxes even know about Supes and if they were just waiting for him to die and scream about it, why not send a signal home in the thousands of years before Superman landed on earth?

Have the Amazons really had 150 - 200 people constantly staring at a mother box for thousands of years?

Is Wonder Woman now a daytime version of Batman for London now? How’s that work with holding down her cover job?

How can Wonder Woman’s bracelet bash create enough concussive power to blow out a concrete/stone wall that’s a couple feet thick without liquefying everyone in that room?

If the Amazon’s plan with their mother box building was to have a way to bury it in the ocean if anyone ever got too close to stealing it, it sure seems stupid to remove it from their carefully constructed collapsible building before collapsing it.

What source could Batman possibly have for info on Aquaman?

How does the world’s greatest detective not figure out Flash’s superpower until he throws a batarang at him?

If the parademons are locating the motherboxes purely on scent, wouldn’t one just sitting in Cyborg’s closet give off a stronger aroma than a handful of people who had been in the same building with it at some point days or weeks ago?

If the Amazons’ island is more than four miles offshore, the arrow of Artemis would’ve had to break the sound barrier on its 20-second flight. Where’s the sonic boom, Snyder?

Between having built their own giant bury-it-in-the-sea emergency building for the mother box and having tons of their people stare at it 24 hours/day for millennia, you’d think the Amazons would’ve done a better job at educating their people about the history of the damn thing.

If Atlanteans need air to talk, why does Vulko make a bubble and then start talking to Aquaman before he’s in it? And how does Aquaman hear him?

How did Darkseid and all his surviving henchmen forget the anti life formula was on the same planet where he lost the mother boxes?

Did team Darkseid pause their hellscape terraforming for several thousand years after they lost the mother boxes?

So the Amazons and Atlanteans come up with these grandiose plans to protect their mother boxes and humans are just like ‘let’s dig a shallow hole and chuck it in’? And the human strategy actually protects their box longer than the other two?

Why do Flash’s shoes explode as soon as he enters the speed force, but all his other clothing is fine?

Does Steppenwolf have a loincloth that matches his armor or is that just armor for a particularly long and flat penis and tail?

If Steppenwolf’s never been on earth and the Atlanteans lived on land when Darkseid was here and the parademons are relying on scent to track down motherboxes, how do any of the bad guys figure out anything about Atlantis or the fact that there’s a mother box hidden in the ocean?

So does Cyborg just randomly do background checks on anyone he sees at an atm and give them money if they need it and have lived a saint-like existence in a publicly documented fashion? Seems kind of like having a cure for cancer but only giving it to people you randomly bump into at the store who are super nice.

Why does Cyborg, master of all technologies, send Wonder Woman a message that looks like it was sent by a hacker in a bad 90s movie, right down to a digital version of a message made from letters cut out from different magazines?

So on the one hand, Cyborg can access any facility on earth, set up automated weapons systems to guard it and presumably counterfeit legit orders to the military, but his ideal hiding place for the mother box is a 2-foot hole in the ground. On the other hand, it works. Seriously, how can the parademons figure out the one in Atlantis, yet be confounded by several inches of loose dirt?

I get that Atlanteans underwater movement basically boils down to some kind of magic particular to their race, but how does Steppenwolf instantly do the same?

When parademons kidnap people, why do they all stop at the exact same spot considerably outside the lair to strip their victims of personal effects and drop them on the ground?

Why would a group of heroes who each have a much faster option walk up many , many flights of stairs together?

Given that Wonder Woman can move fast enough to deflect individual bullets fired from a fully automatic weapon, why does she resort to essentially normal human speed when fighting Steppenwolf hand-to-hand?

Why was Aquaman swimming around Gotham harbor?


Despite having four hours to tell the story and having this complex mythology, I think either this is a turn your brain off kind of movie. I'm still not sure if it's because it was pieced together or if it's an actual problem with the script. But, for instance, I still don't get how this freaking world beat Darkseid, is apparently the only one to do so, and yet they (and also the GLC) forget about it for 5000 (or however long it was) years. Also when he first lands, isn't that the anti life equation drawn on the ground? Did he have a concussion and forget everything?

In many ways JL works better as an Elseworlds that uses the same actors as the other non Snyder movies. Even the Whedon cut contradicted the Aquaman movie, though this is way more blatant (which is really weird because with all the Orm talk it ties in even more with the standalone Aquaman movie). Wonder Woman having the power to beat Ares basically doesn't come up outside of that movie. And WW1984 would be a lot better if you weren't thinking about the Snyder-verse version of WW being in hiding during that time (still wouldn't be a great movie, but it would be better).
Old 03-22-21, 09:26 AM
  #204  
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Re: Zack Snyder’s Justice League (Snyder, 2021) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

I know the opening scenes were different (and how). What caused the mother boxes to activate in the theatrical if not Supe's screaming?
Old 03-22-21, 09:45 AM
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Re: Zack Snyder’s Justice League (Snyder, 2021) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Noonan
I know the opening scenes were different (and how). What caused the mother boxes to activate in the theatrical if not Supe's screaming?
I think it's implied that Steppenwolf was biding his time waiting for the old gods to die out and the Kryptonian to be killed so Earth wouldn't have as many defenders (though why not attack before Superman came to Earth, I have no idea). And actually that makes a little sense because even in this version of the movie Steppenwolf knows the Kryptonian isn't there to defend Earth so he must have been keeping tabs on them. Honestly it makes no sense for Superman's screams to activate a motherbox unless I missed something.

In the Whedon cut, Batman finds out about the mother boxes because the parademons are already on Earth and (for reasons) when they explode they leave behind an etching of the boxes, which corresponds to Luthor's notes and Diana's story.
Old 03-22-21, 10:08 AM
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Re: Zack Snyder’s Justice League (Snyder, 2021) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by fujishig
I think it's implied that Steppenwolf was biding his time waiting for the old gods to die out and the Kryptonian to be killed so Earth wouldn't have as many defenders (though why not attack before Superman came to Earth, I have no idea). And actually that makes a little sense because even in this version of the movie Steppenwolf knows the Kryptonian isn't there to defend Earth so he must have been keeping tabs on them. Honestly it makes no sense for Superman's screams to activate a motherbox unless I missed something.

In the Whedon cut, Batman finds out about the mother boxes because the parademons are already on Earth and (for reasons) when they explode they leave behind an etching of the boxes, which corresponds to Luthor's notes and Diana's story.
Thanks. Doesn't really make sense to me either.

I enjoyed it for something I could watch at home for free. I wouldn't have enjoyed it as much if I paid at a theater. Not specific to this cut but DCU really has themselves in a Dragonball Z scenario. The secondary characters only work until they want to have a new "big bad" threat to the earth. Then they need Supes/Goku to take care of everything for them. Batman dropping into frame after Supe/Cyborg separate the boxes was funny.

I went back and watch MoS and BvS for the first time after finishing this. I enjoyed both of those more than JL.
Old 03-22-21, 10:14 AM
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Re: Zack Snyder’s Justice League (Snyder, 2021) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Noonan
Thanks. Doesn't really make sense to me either.

I enjoyed it for something I could watch at home for free. I wouldn't have enjoyed it as much if I paid at a theater. Not specific to this cut but DCU really has themselves in a Dragonball Z scenario. The secondary characters only work until they want to have a new "big bad" threat to the earth. Then they need Supes/Goku to take care of everything for them. Batman dropping into frame after Supe/Cyborg separate the boxes was funny.

I went back and watch MoS and BvS for the first time after finishing this. I enjoyed both of those more than JL.
This was kind of always an issue with Superman and the Justice League. They went around this early on by having fetch quests or something similar where the team would have to split up and do their own things and then come back together, or having big bads like you said that were too big for Superman alone. Sometimes they would take Superman off the team completely. But it was always the butt of the joke, why do you need Batman (before Morrison made him a tactical genius that could take anyone down), Hawkman, Flash (before the speed force), even WW or Martian Manhunter when Superman had all their powers but moreso?

They even tried for a while to say that MM was stronger than Superman post Crisis but that didn't last all that long (plus fire is a whole lot less rare than Kryptonite as far as weaknesses go)
Old 03-22-21, 10:21 AM
  #208  
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Re: Zack Snyder’s Justice League (Snyder, 2021) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

It's too bad this "universe" is all but dead. Some castings like Irons as Alfred and Simmons as Gordon were excellent.
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Old 03-22-21, 10:28 AM
  #209  
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Re: Zack Snyder’s Justice League (Snyder, 2021) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Noonan
It's too bad this "universe" is all but dead. Some castings like Irons as Alfred and Simmons as Gordon were excellent.
Agreed on that. Despite not being a huge fan of either version of the movie, the casting of especially the heroes/side characters in this cinematic universe has been fantastic, with my main qualms being the Joker and Lex (which are gigantic in terms of villains but man they did a good job with casting)
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Old 03-22-21, 10:58 AM
  #210  
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Re: Zack Snyder’s Justice League (Snyder, 2021) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Runaway
If you watched the movie more carefully, you could answer the question yourself, since Willem Dafoe made a bubble.
Thank you. I did miss that.

I’m just hung up on how stupid it is that in Snyder’s DC world, a race of underwater superhumans have to create pockets of air whenever they want to talk to each other.

Old 03-22-21, 11:04 AM
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Re: Zack Snyder’s Justice League (Snyder, 2021) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Draven
Thank you. I did miss that.

I’m just hung up on how stupid it is that in Snyder’s DC world, a race of underwater superhumans have to create pockets of air whenever they want to talk to each other.
It seemed like they could talk to each other with the (kinda dumb sounding) dolphin sounds, but for exposition sake they made the air bubbles. Also I'd assume people like Mera and Vulko used magic/water manipulation to do that and it's not something that every Atlantean has access to (for instance I don't think Aquaman could do it) but I may be wrong.
Old 03-22-21, 11:07 AM
  #212  
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Re: Zack Snyder’s Justice League (Snyder, 2021) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

It's weird how folks rationalize that the DCEU films and these films are "too dark" and all that horse shit, I'm glad they are the way they are. Stick to your MCU rainbow brite bullshit if you want. What does crack me up is how folks complain about the heroes killing people and things. Hmmm, go watch the first episode of Falcon and Winter Soldier -- count how many people were shot and stabbed to death by our heroes.

I would say that if you have this irrational hate against ZS (for the man and for his filmography) then why bother watching this one? It's a self fulfilling prophecy.
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Old 03-22-21, 11:08 AM
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Re: Zack Snyder’s Justice League (Snyder, 2021) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Oh, and as far as the water talking and the air bubble thing, this was also shot a couple of years before Aquaman came out. Maybe they hadn't figured out until James Wan came onboard to direct the solo film -- how they would do that going forward.
Old 03-22-21, 11:13 AM
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Re: Zack Snyder’s Justice League (Snyder, 2021) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Why So Blu?
It's weird how folks rationalize that the DCEU films and these films are "too dark" and all that horse shit, I'm glad they are the way they are. Stick to your MCU rainbow brite bullshit if you want. What does crack me up is how folks complain about the heroes killing people and things. Hmmm, go watch the first episode of Falcon and Winter Soldier -- count how many people were shot and stabbed to death by our heroes.
Is there a rich history of Falcon not killing people like we have with Batman and Superman (which Snyder discarded because it's not "cool")?

I would say that if you have this irrational hate against ZS (for the man and for his filmography) then why bother watching this one? It's a self fulfilling prophecy.
I don't hate Snyder's filmography. Once again, I love Dawn of the Dead and 300, I like Watchmen a lot and even though it's a mess of a movie, Sucker Punch is pretty wild for a major Hollywood release.

I think he's stumbled with the DCEU. He has the same problem that Michael Bay has - the fewer people who tell him no and the bigger his budget, the worse his movies become. George Lucas also has this issue.

BvS is Snyder's worst but Justice League was a close second. And yet what I've seen wasn't his "version". Considering that this was the biggest thing out right now as far as comic book movies go and some people and critics I really respect loved it, I took 4 hours and watched it. And I thought it was actually worse than Whedon's version but I did the time and this thread is not just for people who loved it. I get to react to what I saw, same as you.

Also just wanted to throw this in because I didn't mention it before - remember when Cyborg visualized the world's financial system as a CGI bear fighting a CGI bull? Good times.
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Old 03-22-21, 11:19 AM
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Re: Zack Snyder’s Justice League (Snyder, 2021) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Yes. I can't criticize "slow motion" either. I just don't get it.

Justice League is now a movie I'll revisit again and again.

I could be wrong. But didn't Whedon's cut just end with Superman showing up and beating up the Steppenwolf? I'll have to rewatch if it streams somewhere, just for reference. I remember watching it in theaters and feeling nothing.

Steppenwolf was great in this. His need for Darkseid's approval made me feel sorry for him. I don't even remember that in Whedon's version. Also does this mean that Zach Snyder (or his closest writers) have serious daddy issues? Dads were worked into Cyborg's character too. And The Flash. And Superman's two dads. Or maybe it just makes for good emotional attachment to have family attached.
Old 03-22-21, 11:19 AM
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Re: Zack Snyder’s Justice League (Snyder, 2021) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Why So Blu?
Oh, and as far as the water talking and the air bubble thing, this was also shot a couple of years before Aquaman came out. Maybe they hadn't figured out until James Wan came onboard to direct the solo film -- how they would do that going forward.
Yeah I member Wan said there was a big discussion and he said they are just going to talk, don't over complicate it.
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Old 03-22-21, 11:28 AM
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Re: Zack Snyder’s Justice League (Snyder, 2021) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Draven
Is there a rich history of Falcon not killing people like we have with Batman and Superman (which Snyder discarded because it's not "cool")?



I don't hate Snyder's filmography. Once again, I love Dawn of the Dead and 300, I like Watchmen a lot and even though it's a mess of a movie, Sucker Punch is pretty wild for a major Hollywood release.

I think he's stumbled with the DCEU. He has the same problem that Michael Bay has - the fewer people who tell him no and the bigger his budget, the worse his movies become. George Lucas also has this issue.

BvS is Snyder's worst but Justice League was a close second. And yet what I've seen wasn't his "version". Considering that this was the biggest thing out right now as far as comic book movies go and some people and critics I really respect loved it, I took 4 hours and watched it. And I thought it was actually worse than Whedon's version but I did the time and this thread is not just for people who loved it. I get to react to what I saw, same as you.

Also just wanted to throw this in because I didn't mention it before - remember when Cyborg visualized the world's financial system as a CGI bear fighting a CGI bull? Good times.

I meant to add to my post that with that being said, glad that folks did watch it, because now it gives you the right to express your opinion in this spoiler thread. It'd be worse if you shat on it without having seen it.

I thought the metaphor with the bull and bear markets fighting was a great visual. See, that's what I mean, Snyder is primarily a visualist and his "eye" is valid just for that.
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Old 03-22-21, 11:34 AM
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Re: Zack Snyder’s Justice League (Snyder, 2021) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

I did think one of the oddest omissions to Whedon's version was the complete removal of Darkseid, to the point that I have to believe that was mandated from above because otherwise why take out a "hook" to potential sequels? Removing any mention of him did nothing to streamline the plot. Even if you didn't have the time or money to animate him sufficiently (at the time), at least include the mural that WW looks at that reveals there's a bigger bad out there even if we don't get to see him.

Also, if that whole Batman getting Lois pregnant thing was real, we are kind of lucky they reigned in Snyder as much as they did. When I saw the pregnancy test I was like "oh no" but thankfully that didn't happen.
Old 03-22-21, 11:41 AM
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Re: Zack Snyder’s Justice League (Snyder, 2021) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Why So Blu?
I thought the metaphor with the bull and bear markets fighting was a great visual. See, that's what I mean, Snyder is primarily a visualist and his "eye" is valid just for that.
And to me it’s like something a 16-year-old submits as an art project because he thinks it’s some kind of indictment of the system.

It’s the most ham-handed, obvious and simplistic metaphor possible. I literally laughed when I saw it.
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Old 03-22-21, 11:42 AM
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Re: Zack Snyder’s Justice League (Snyder, 2021) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

So who's going to watch the B&W "Justice is Grey" version that will be coming at a later date?

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Old 03-22-21, 11:45 AM
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Re: Zack Snyder’s Justice League (Snyder, 2021) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Draven
And to me it’s like something a 16-year-old submits as an art project because he thinks it’s some kind of indictment of the system.

It’s the most ham-handed, obvious and simplistic metaphor possible. I literally laughed when I saw it.

Well, he is an Art Center College of Design graduate. It kind of goes with the territory. It also worked for me in context, because you had Cyborg absorbing it all (information and illustrating it in this hyper/surrealistic way) in a short amount of time. It led to the scene of him helping the nurse from the hospital.
Old 03-22-21, 11:46 AM
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Re: Zack Snyder’s Justice League (Snyder, 2021) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by DJariya
So who's going to watch the B&W "Justice is Grey" version that will be coming at a later date?
Me. It's also going to air on HBO MAX, so no need to leave the house for it.
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Old 03-22-21, 11:48 AM
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Re: Zack Snyder’s Justice League (Snyder, 2021) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Why So Blu?
Well, he is an Art Center College of Design graduate. It kind of goes with the territory. It also worked for me in context, because you had Cyborg absorbing it all (information and illustrating it in this hyper/surrealistic way) in a short amount of time. It led to the scene of him helping the nurse from the hospital.
That also struck me as kind of an idealized version of how finances work. I realize banks are huge and have a lot of money and maybe that amount flies under the radar (like they suspected in Office Space) but that money had to come from somewhere, no?
Old 03-22-21, 11:53 AM
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Re: Zack Snyder’s Justice League (Snyder, 2021) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by fujishig
That also struck me as kind of an idealized version of how finances work. I realize banks are huge and have a lot of money and maybe that amount flies under the radar (like they suspected in Office Space) but that money had to come from somewhere, no?
Yeah, probably some overinflated investment banking system. It was only 100K, so they would not miss it.
Old 03-22-21, 11:54 AM
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Re: Zack Snyder’s Justice League (Snyder, 2021) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Why So Blu?
I meant to add to my post that with that being said, glad that folks did watch it, because now it gives you the right to express your opinion in this spoiler thread. It'd be worse if you shat on it without having seen it.

I thought the metaphor with the bull and bear markets fighting was a great visual. See, that's what I mean, Snyder is primarily a visualist and his "eye" is valid just for that.
This movie has gotten way more buzz than The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, which are basically 2 MCU B-characters and was mostly set up episode.

The fact that people are actually dedicating 4 hours, which is tough to do, to watch this shows how much it's in the pop culture radar of everyone right now.


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