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Top Chef: Chicago Series Discussion----Season 4----Premieres 3/12/08

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Top Chef: Chicago Series Discussion----Season 4----Premieres 3/12/08

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Old 06-05-08, 12:22 PM
  #201  
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It was clear from the intro, that Antonia, Richard and Stephanie were real close. And the editing initially had me know that Lisa was going to stay.

I think that Dan hit on a point that comes up all the time with the shows like this, they don't take into account the overall season, so one bad day and you are screwed ,I still don't know how Lisa could be in the bottom and escape so many times.
Old 06-05-08, 02:15 PM
  #202  
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From Tom's Blog on Bravo.

Now you may hate us for standing in the "judge each week on it’s own merits" corner, and personally subscribe to the "judge each week by overall performance" camp, but consider for a moment if we did judge each contestant based on their cumulative merits -- by whose analysis, exactly? And how do we arrive at a consensus? My idea of how the chefs rank may vary widely from Ted or Gail’s. And what about our Guest Judge -- he or she doesn’t know any of the chefs -- of what value at that point is their input? The debate would shift from "who won this episode?" to "who’s won the most episodes?" and "should we factor in the Quickfires?" "Does attitude or likability count?" "How about we assign each dish a score, tally them up, and then knock people off by the numbers?" Etc. etc .... It opens a huge, even more contentious can of worms. The "week-by-week" logic may be only incrementally fairer than the "overall performance" argument, but it’s our story, and we’re sticking to it.

That said, I felt manipulated by the week-before-last’s show -- it really did seem like Lisa should have been sent home over Dale. I wrote this in my blog not to sell my fellow judges up the river, but rather to empathize with viewers who are left to wonder, How did that happen?" It’s hard to boil four or more hours of nuanced debate into a few minutes of screen time, and I can see why the results don’t always mesh with what viewers have seen.

I can only resolve to follow my gut each week about the food in front of me, and hope that Top Chef fans stick it out with us and keep writing in. Your thoughts and comments, even when I don’t agree, are an essential part of making this a dish that works.

Tom
Old 06-05-08, 02:43 PM
  #203  
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Well, first off

Did Lisa really just stay over Antonia? Really?

But that being said, I largely agree with what Tom said. Notice I say "largely." I have always thought that the quickfire challenges should be taken into account when it comes to the judges table. I mean, at one point, they are granted immunity for those victories, so why not take that dish into account when deciding who goes home for the week?

And then there's a case like this one. Just by looking at victories vs. bottom 3 appearances, I think it's pretty obvious where the two chefs rank in the judges' minds. It's not like it would have been a huge fight over which chef they think performs better. And Tom raked Lisa over the coals about how poor her performance was this week. All he could really say about Antonia is that she undercooked her rice. I realize that's a big deal, but was it enough to get sent home? Well, I guess so.

Go anyone not named Lisa!
Old 06-05-08, 03:36 PM
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It is true though, we see about 3 seconds of debate and never taste the food so it's a tough call.

Lisa sucks.
Old 06-05-08, 04:26 PM
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so to become top chef you don't be the best just try not to be the worst every week. That worked out perfect for Lisa, oh not true she actually won the other week for making awesome bacon. It was really amusing how Dale freaked out about it.
Old 06-05-08, 04:37 PM
  #206  
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They kick Antonia out for undercooked beans, but they keep Lisa who can't cook rice...
Old 06-05-08, 04:38 PM
  #207  
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Originally Posted by BadlyDrawnBoy
From Tom's Blog on Bravo.
Great explanation by Tom, and for the most part I agree with him. I also suspect that Lisa's cooking is much better than the editing makes us believe. I am no fan of hers, and almost certain she will be eliminated first of the three, but she did have a point about the congratulations.

Also, it seemed like months in between the last two shows. Not sure they stated the exact amount of time.
Old 06-05-08, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by bigsoos
They kick Antonia out for undercooked beans, but they keep Lisa who can't cook rice...
Lisa considers Asian food her specialty... and she STILL can't cook rice. Why is she still here?
Old 06-05-08, 04:51 PM
  #209  
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That's only part of Tom's Blog, there's quite a bit more to it on the webpage.
Old 06-05-08, 05:12 PM
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I think it is probably more fair (slightly) to judge on the basis of that week only, but I also believe that the past weeks need to be taken into account a bit as well. Not necessarily a large factor, but one none the less.

I feel it should be about getting the best chefs to the final round and letting them duke it out for the title. Dale and Antonia may have had missteps, but overall, they showed much more consistency, and anyone with a modicum of sense (at least, based on what we are shown) would have to surmise that either one of them had a much higher probability of having a better showing than Lisa down the road. I don't recall Lisa being praised much at all the entire season, outside of her being in the top 3 in last week's quickfire, or one of the earlier eliminations when she was teamed up with others.
Old 06-05-08, 05:22 PM
  #211  
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Originally Posted by BadlyDrawnBoy
That's only part of Tom's Blog, there's quite a bit more to it on the webpage.
just read it, interesting stuff. I wanted to go back and read his blog about Dale being booted, but for some reason I couldn't get the site to give me anything more than the current one.
Old 06-05-08, 05:25 PM
  #212  
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Originally Posted by SexualPudding
I think it is probably more fair (slightly) to judge on the basis of that week only, but I also believe that the past weeks need to be taken into account a bit as well. Not necessarily a large factor, but one none the less.

I feel it should be about getting the best chefs to the final round and letting them duke it out for the title. Dale and Antonia may have had missteps, but overall, they showed much more consistency, and anyone with a modicum of sense (at least, based on what we are shown) would have to surmise that either one of them had a much higher probability of having a better showing than Lisa down the road. I don't recall Lisa being praised much at all the entire season, outside of her being in the top 3 in last week's quickfire, or one of the earlier eliminations when she was teamed up with others.
to some extent, though, that takes away from the true competition. After 1 or 2 episodes, it is usually pretty apparent which chefs are the best. If they took prior weeks into account, I could have told you in week 1 that Richard would be here. Or Hung in the last season. The interesting thing about the competition as it is set up is that everyone has an equal shot of going home every week. If prior performance was taken into account, some chefs would gain a sort of quasi immunity and would get saved even if theirs was the worst dish that week. That doesn't seem right to me, nor does it seem like good TV.
Old 06-05-08, 05:38 PM
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Which is exactly why I said previous performance should be a small factor at most. I definitely see the merit in your perspective, but I guess I meant it should be considered mainly when helping determine which person out of the 2 or 3 worst of the week should be booted. If someone cooks an utter shit dish, their ass should be on the firing line, regardless of past performance. However, if the other people up there with them are the ones who are there every week, I think a bit more leeway could and should possibly be given.

Last edited by SexualPudding; 06-05-08 at 05:40 PM.
Old 06-05-08, 05:56 PM
  #214  
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Originally Posted by SexualPudding
Which is exactly why I said previous performance should be a small factor at most. I definitely see the merit in your perspective, but I guess I meant it should be considered mainly when helping determine which person out of the 2 or 3 worst of the week should be booted. If someone cooks an utter shit dish, their ass should be on the firing line, regardless of past performance. However, if the other people up there with them are the ones who are there every week, I think a bit more leeway could and should possibly be given.
part of me agrees, for sure, because I want to see the best chefs move on. But I also don't think that makes for good reality TV drama. If past performance played a role in this past episode, we would have known that Lisa was going home. I think it's more exciting to really not know.
Old 06-05-08, 06:21 PM
  #215  
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"Good reality tv drama" seems like a bit of an oxymoron to me, but I can't say I disagree. It just frosts my ass to see a fuckwad like Lisa make it all the way to the final round for essentially making food week in and week out that was just tolerable enough not to get her kicked off. It also seemed like the episodes where her dishes were at their most offensive happened to be ones where someone far more talented had a colossal fuck up.
Old 06-06-08, 07:11 AM
  #216  
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Originally Posted by bigsoos
They kick Antonia out for undercooked beans, but they keep Lisa who can't cook rice...
......or shrimp.
Old 06-06-08, 07:43 AM
  #217  
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We all know Lisa has no chance. It was close enough with Antonia they keep Lisa for the TV drama.

And let's face it, it worked.
Old 06-06-08, 08:51 AM
  #218  
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I don't agree. I don't think people tune into a show like this for drama for the sake of drama. I do not beleieve keeping Lisa on does anything to increase ratings or make people like the show more. If anything, it does the opposite. I truly believe that Lisa got lucky, that this week Antonia was the worst chef.
Old 06-06-08, 09:04 AM
  #219  
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Originally Posted by johnnysd
Also, it seemed like months in between the last two shows. Not sure they stated the exact amount of time.
It was either Steph or Lisa but when they were arriving in Puerto Rico one of them said that in the "6 months" they were doing whatever it was they were doing. I know Steph mentioned traveling to Thailand.
Old 06-06-08, 09:16 AM
  #220  
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Steph got a lil bigger in those 6 months too
Old 06-06-08, 09:17 AM
  #221  
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Originally Posted by LurkerDan
I don't agree. I don't think people tune into a show like this for drama for the sake of drama. I do not beleieve keeping Lisa on does anything to increase ratings or make people like the show more. If anything, it does the opposite. I truly believe that Lisa got lucky, that this week Antonia was the worst chef.
Agreed. From the comments of the judges (and other competitors) this season, it seems that when Lisa gets something right, it's incredibly good. I think they genuinely like her food when she doesn't screw up, and since someone else also screws up most weeks, she's been fortunate enough to slip through on the quality of what she cooked properly. I think it's also possible that her food isn't always deserving of being in the bottom group, but because she's such an awful bitch, subconsciously the judges keep singling her out.

das
Old 06-06-08, 09:21 AM
  #222  
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To me, she just doesn't work well under others. She'll do her job, but since she isn't in charge doesn't seem to care nearly as much. Additionally, she will not go out of her way. She plays the game to win, but she's a bitch.
Old 06-06-08, 10:05 AM
  #223  
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Originally Posted by bigsoos
Steph got a lil bigger in those 6 months too
I was thinking the same thing but was not going to say anything. Apparently she did QUITE a bit of research on the local cuisine in Thailand
Old 06-06-08, 10:24 AM
  #224  
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I also noticed that Richard traded in his pink Crocs for some white clogs during the hiatus.
Old 06-06-08, 11:02 AM
  #225  
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Originally Posted by das Monkey
I think it's also possible that her food isn't always deserving of being in the bottom group, but because she's such an awful bitch, subconsciously the judges keep singling her out.

das
according to Tom's blog, they don't really get to see much of the interaction between the chefs, and so are mostly unaware who's the bitch. I am sure it is somewhat obvious that Lisa is one, but I don't know if it truly stands out that much to them.


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