Top Chef: Chicago Series Discussion----Season 4----Premieres 3/12/08
#201
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It was clear from the intro, that Antonia, Richard and Stephanie were real close. And the editing initially had me know that Lisa was going to stay.
I think that Dan hit on a point that comes up all the time with the shows like this, they don't take into account the overall season, so one bad day and you are screwed ,I still don't know how Lisa could be in the bottom and escape so many times.
I think that Dan hit on a point that comes up all the time with the shows like this, they don't take into account the overall season, so one bad day and you are screwed ,I still don't know how Lisa could be in the bottom and escape so many times.
#202
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From Tom's Blog on Bravo.
Now you may hate us for standing in the "judge each week on it’s own merits" corner, and personally subscribe to the "judge each week by overall performance" camp, but consider for a moment if we did judge each contestant based on their cumulative merits -- by whose analysis, exactly? And how do we arrive at a consensus? My idea of how the chefs rank may vary widely from Ted or Gail’s. And what about our Guest Judge -- he or she doesn’t know any of the chefs -- of what value at that point is their input? The debate would shift from "who won this episode?" to "who’s won the most episodes?" and "should we factor in the Quickfires?" "Does attitude or likability count?" "How about we assign each dish a score, tally them up, and then knock people off by the numbers?" Etc. etc .... It opens a huge, even more contentious can of worms. The "week-by-week" logic may be only incrementally fairer than the "overall performance" argument, but it’s our story, and we’re sticking to it.
That said, I felt manipulated by the week-before-last’s show -- it really did seem like Lisa should have been sent home over Dale. I wrote this in my blog not to sell my fellow judges up the river, but rather to empathize with viewers who are left to wonder, How did that happen?" It’s hard to boil four or more hours of nuanced debate into a few minutes of screen time, and I can see why the results don’t always mesh with what viewers have seen.
I can only resolve to follow my gut each week about the food in front of me, and hope that Top Chef fans stick it out with us and keep writing in. Your thoughts and comments, even when I don’t agree, are an essential part of making this a dish that works.
Tom
That said, I felt manipulated by the week-before-last’s show -- it really did seem like Lisa should have been sent home over Dale. I wrote this in my blog not to sell my fellow judges up the river, but rather to empathize with viewers who are left to wonder, How did that happen?" It’s hard to boil four or more hours of nuanced debate into a few minutes of screen time, and I can see why the results don’t always mesh with what viewers have seen.
I can only resolve to follow my gut each week about the food in front of me, and hope that Top Chef fans stick it out with us and keep writing in. Your thoughts and comments, even when I don’t agree, are an essential part of making this a dish that works.
Tom
#203
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Well, first off
Did Lisa really just stay over Antonia? Really?
But that being said, I largely agree with what Tom said. Notice I say "largely." I have always thought that the quickfire challenges should be taken into account when it comes to the judges table. I mean, at one point, they are granted immunity for those victories, so why not take that dish into account when deciding who goes home for the week?
And then there's a case like this one. Just by looking at victories vs. bottom 3 appearances, I think it's pretty obvious where the two chefs rank in the judges' minds. It's not like it would have been a huge fight over which chef they think performs better. And Tom raked Lisa over the coals about how poor her performance was this week. All he could really say about Antonia is that she undercooked her rice. I realize that's a big deal, but was it enough to get sent home? Well, I guess so.
Go anyone not named Lisa!
![Jaw Drop](/images/smilies/jawdrop.gif)
Did Lisa really just stay over Antonia? Really?
But that being said, I largely agree with what Tom said. Notice I say "largely." I have always thought that the quickfire challenges should be taken into account when it comes to the judges table. I mean, at one point, they are granted immunity for those victories, so why not take that dish into account when deciding who goes home for the week?
And then there's a case like this one. Just by looking at victories vs. bottom 3 appearances, I think it's pretty obvious where the two chefs rank in the judges' minds. It's not like it would have been a huge fight over which chef they think performs better. And Tom raked Lisa over the coals about how poor her performance was this week. All he could really say about Antonia is that she undercooked her rice. I realize that's a big deal, but was it enough to get sent home? Well, I guess so.
Go anyone not named Lisa!
#204
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It is true though, we see about 3 seconds of debate and never taste the food so it's a tough call.
Lisa sucks.
Lisa sucks.
#205
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so to become top chef you don't be the best just try not to be the worst every week. That worked out perfect for Lisa, oh not true she actually won the other week for making awesome bacon. It was really amusing how Dale freaked out about it.
#207
Originally Posted by BadlyDrawnBoy
From Tom's Blog on Bravo.
Also, it seemed like months in between the last two shows. Not sure they stated the exact amount of time.
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Originally Posted by bigsoos
They kick Antonia out for undercooked beans, but they keep Lisa who can't cook rice...
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I think it is probably more fair (slightly) to judge on the basis of that week only, but I also believe that the past weeks need to be taken into account a bit as well. Not necessarily a large factor, but one none the less.
I feel it should be about getting the best chefs to the final round and letting them duke it out for the title. Dale and Antonia may have had missteps, but overall, they showed much more consistency, and anyone with a modicum of sense (at least, based on what we are shown) would have to surmise that either one of them had a much higher probability of having a better showing than Lisa down the road. I don't recall Lisa being praised much at all the entire season, outside of her being in the top 3 in last week's quickfire, or one of the earlier eliminations when she was teamed up with others.
I feel it should be about getting the best chefs to the final round and letting them duke it out for the title. Dale and Antonia may have had missteps, but overall, they showed much more consistency, and anyone with a modicum of sense (at least, based on what we are shown) would have to surmise that either one of them had a much higher probability of having a better showing than Lisa down the road. I don't recall Lisa being praised much at all the entire season, outside of her being in the top 3 in last week's quickfire, or one of the earlier eliminations when she was teamed up with others.
#211
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Originally Posted by BadlyDrawnBoy
That's only part of Tom's Blog, there's quite a bit more to it on the webpage.
#212
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Originally Posted by SexualPudding
I think it is probably more fair (slightly) to judge on the basis of that week only, but I also believe that the past weeks need to be taken into account a bit as well. Not necessarily a large factor, but one none the less.
I feel it should be about getting the best chefs to the final round and letting them duke it out for the title. Dale and Antonia may have had missteps, but overall, they showed much more consistency, and anyone with a modicum of sense (at least, based on what we are shown) would have to surmise that either one of them had a much higher probability of having a better showing than Lisa down the road. I don't recall Lisa being praised much at all the entire season, outside of her being in the top 3 in last week's quickfire, or one of the earlier eliminations when she was teamed up with others.
I feel it should be about getting the best chefs to the final round and letting them duke it out for the title. Dale and Antonia may have had missteps, but overall, they showed much more consistency, and anyone with a modicum of sense (at least, based on what we are shown) would have to surmise that either one of them had a much higher probability of having a better showing than Lisa down the road. I don't recall Lisa being praised much at all the entire season, outside of her being in the top 3 in last week's quickfire, or one of the earlier eliminations when she was teamed up with others.
#213
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Which is exactly why I said previous performance should be a small factor at most. I definitely see the merit in your perspective, but I guess I meant it should be considered mainly when helping determine which person out of the 2 or 3 worst of the week should be booted. If someone cooks an utter shit dish, their ass should be on the firing line, regardless of past performance. However, if the other people up there with them are the ones who are there every week, I think a bit more leeway could and should possibly be given.
Last edited by SexualPudding; 06-05-08 at 05:40 PM.
#214
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Originally Posted by SexualPudding
Which is exactly why I said previous performance should be a small factor at most. I definitely see the merit in your perspective, but I guess I meant it should be considered mainly when helping determine which person out of the 2 or 3 worst of the week should be booted. If someone cooks an utter shit dish, their ass should be on the firing line, regardless of past performance. However, if the other people up there with them are the ones who are there every week, I think a bit more leeway could and should possibly be given.
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"Good reality tv drama" seems like a bit of an oxymoron to me, but I can't say I disagree. It just frosts my ass to see a fuckwad like Lisa make it all the way to the final round for essentially making food week in and week out that was just tolerable enough not to get her kicked off. It also seemed like the episodes where her dishes were at their most offensive happened to be ones where someone far more talented had a colossal fuck up.
#216
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Originally Posted by bigsoos
They kick Antonia out for undercooked beans, but they keep Lisa who can't cook rice...
#218
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I don't agree. I don't think people tune into a show like this for drama for the sake of drama. I do not beleieve keeping Lisa on does anything to increase ratings or make people like the show more. If anything, it does the opposite. I truly believe that Lisa got lucky, that this week Antonia was the worst chef.
#219
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Originally Posted by johnnysd
Also, it seemed like months in between the last two shows. Not sure they stated the exact amount of time.
#221
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Originally Posted by LurkerDan
I don't agree. I don't think people tune into a show like this for drama for the sake of drama. I do not beleieve keeping Lisa on does anything to increase ratings or make people like the show more. If anything, it does the opposite. I truly believe that Lisa got lucky, that this week Antonia was the worst chef.
das
#222
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To me, she just doesn't work well under others. She'll do her job, but since she isn't in charge doesn't seem to care nearly as much. Additionally, she will not go out of her way. She plays the game to win, but she's a bitch.
#223
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Originally Posted by bigsoos
Steph got a lil bigger in those 6 months too
![Smilie](/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#225
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Originally Posted by das Monkey
I think it's also possible that her food isn't always deserving of being in the bottom group, but because she's such an awful bitch, subconsciously the judges keep singling her out.
das
das