Tracer Bullet

Look, I'm all for canon, but... Jesus Christ, people. You're basing this on a heavily-edited two-minute trailer. And if the movie is true to the spirit of Trek I really couldn't give a shit how much it violates "continuity". When canon gets in the way of a good story, it's time to ditch canon.

Draven

100% agreed. I'd rather have a great and original Star Trek story than one that had to be shoehorned into a pretty messy canon.

The Bus

I've seen two Star Trek movies, a handful of TNG episodes, and Trekkies. From the types of sites I visit (this one including), various Futurama episodes, and friends I have I'm vaguely aware of what's good and what is not in ST (II vs TMP, DS9 vs Enterprise).

I don't know if this will be any good. But I can almost guarantee that it will make more than any other Star Trek movie has in the last decade, if not more.

Groucho

Canon? What canon? The writers of the shows and movies have always went with "what works for this particular storyline" as opposed to slavishly following "what works with what's gone before". As such there is no canon in this universe.

DVD Josh

QFT. Seriously, I'm just hoping for an entertaining movie based loosely on the characters and universe, and it sounds like I'll get it.

HN

not sure what's going on with the main site (the trailer "countdown" started counting up after it hit 0D 0H 0M) but the apple site has the new trailer:

http://www.apple.com/trailers/paramount/startrek/

DVD Josh

Spock's Brain!

Listen guys, there were FAR more horrible eps of TOS than great ones. For every City, there's 5 Brains.

Solid Snake

exactly..Canon is too much at times. It's never been a continuous line of product from a specific era, comics have canon...and is more an issue due to it's continuous arcs and etc. ST jumps around..there's LONG periods until something else pops up. It looks good from what the trailer shows and it's all that matters as long as it's good and true to the spirit of what Star Trek was.

al_bundy

it's not a TOS era movie unless they make the whole thing look like it was made using 1960's FX technology with a TV series budget

Sean O'Hara

No, there are two good episodes for every horrible one. And all the horrible ones are from the final season.

iamiam

Just ordered TOS Seasons 1, 2, & 3 to prep my 10, 11, & 12-year olds for the coming movie. Now I'm not sure if it was a good idea

milo bloom

Actually, last I checked, all Star Wars novels are at least "partially" canon. That is, there exists a few levels of canon, with the movies at the top, the novels next, the current comics, then the old comics, etc. So basically something is canon unless overruled by something higher.

Trek has pretty much always just been anything filmed (with the animated series being caught in the middle, if you have time, google the name Richard Arnold in relation to Star Trek, but be forewarned, it can get unpleasant).

So, the none of the novels or anything are considered "canon".

So, keeping that in mind, the canon violations we're mainly speaking of are all from the filmed series and movies. Even taking into account a temporal event, things like the crew ages don't make sense. In the second season of TOS Kirk states on screen that his 34 and Chekov gives his age as 22. When Kirk is at the academy, Chekov should still be in grade school.

Here's where it gets interesting, the writers have admitted in interviews to being big fans of many of the novels, and drawing influences from many of them (this is where Kirk's mother's name Winona comes from BTW), so even though the novels aren't canon, the fact that the people behind the project have admitted to liking and drawing influence to some of them, yet some of the details appear very contradictory to what's accepted is also what's causing some concern.


Let me reiterate my personal view on canon and my thoughts on the trailer: I believe that a good writer can tell a good story while still remaining true to what has been established. It's possible to explore different facets of something that's been established in support of good storytelling, in a "different point of view" type of manner. But blatant changes just reek of laziness or worse, indifference.

As for the trailer, it's not just the possible canon violations, but the whole tone just seems wrong. It reminds me of those trailers where they cut together footage from The Shining to make it look like a comedic family film.

I want this project to succeed, I want someone to breathe fresh life into the franchise. When people started saying Voyager and then Enterprise were proof that the franchise was showing fatigue, I couldn't agree. Both were valid concepts, but it was the people that were showing fatigure. Both series had more than a few moments of brilliance, esp during ENT's 4th season when new writers with impressive Trek novel pedigrees were brought on board.

I want the current fanbase to be re-energised and for it to gain an infusion of new fans. But I don't want it done wrong. How many here refuse to accept the Star Wars prequels? How many would have gladly lived with only the original three if you knew the prequels were going to turn out the way they did? (sidebar, I enjoy the prequels but admit they could have benefitted from about 90% *less* involvement on Lucas' part)

Trek can be given a new life, but will it be a life worth living?

milo bloom

Poppy-cock. At the very least you'll have exposed him to three seasons of a groundbreaking scifi series with more than a few stellar examples of storytelling. Even the stinkers are good for putting obnoxious catch-phrases in their mouths. I look forward to you posting back here about how they won't stop shouting "Brain and brain, what is brain!?"

DVD Josh

You wish. I wish too. But it's simply not true.

Superboy

Yeah, it was pretty obvious from the get-go that Star Trek had many small continuity errors like that. I guess that's to be expected from a show that was trying to put character drama, political allegory, and social commentary at the forefront, with all the sci-fi frou-frou just window dressing. Talk about shitty writing.

rennervision

My take is that this is a true reboot using Leonard Nimoy in the same fashion as Casino Royale is a reboot but still uses Judi Dench as M.

As a disgruntled Star Wars fan, I'll just say to all the upset Star Trek fans that I feel your pain. I personally think JJ Abrams is incredibly overrated. It seems like he's always attached to these projects that ignore established continuity in the story just so he can put his own unique "spin" on it. It comes across as plagiarism to me rather than clever writing. (Take a beloved franchise, then change all the details and pat yourself on the back for your ingenuity. Thank goodness his Superman movie never happened.)

And why does it seem like every freakin' Abrams story starts somewhere past the middle, then flashbacks to the beginning? Abrams - it's time for a new narrative technique, buddy.

Star Wars Guy

I'm just throwing this out casually, but since this is a reboot (or somewhat of one since Nimoy is involved), can't we pretty much ignore canon and start this fresh?

Chew

Nah, that would make too much sense.

devilshalo

Kirk's already fuckin' a green chick.

MaxMFP

1 and 2, yes. Season 3 is utter garbage.

tanman

I just watched the trailer (wanted to wait until a good quality version was available).

I am a really big star trek fan. I never originally saw all TOS but have since watched them all on DVD and have always liked all the movies.

I am quite excited for this. I know there will be continuity problems but as long as they are minor I think a good quality exciting movie will more then make up for that.

Looking at the bridge in the trailer seems to be pretty cool. It looks like really futuristic while still being before Next Gen time period. There were still buttons and knobs and joysticks.

I still hate the design of the enterprise. They could have still updated it while not looking absolutely goofy.

And I REALLY hope they didn't change his name to Siberius. That would be a ridiculous continuity change with no real reason for it. And that is really where I stand on continuity. If canon is really in the way of good story telling and it is worth it to change it then fine. But I hate change just for the sake of change. You don't need that and it will just piss of the real fans and serve no purpose.

milo bloom

Honestly, that's the hope, however Abrams, et al, have continually wavered on whether or not to call this a "reboot" or simply a "reinvigoration". As I've noted earlier in this thread, if they had simply said "we're rebooting, starting from scratch", I would have been fine, and I would have given it a chance and I might have even enjoyed it. But they keep going back and forth, and want to have their cake and eat it too, so it's like they're partially rebooting, but also "relaunching".

Okay, you're not the first person I've seen post about this, is that how you're hearing it? Cause it may just be the kid slurring the "s" from the end of James into the Tiberious. Try shouting it aloud like the kid (make sure you're alone ) and you'll notice it can run together.

Giantrobo

Yeah I heard, "James Tiberious Kirk", quite clearly in the trailer. I reminded me of how I've always enjoyed hearing his full name.

The Cow

I'll go ahead and agree with him. Keeps his ratio about right.

DVD Josh

For the sake of argument, here is a list of the first two seasons episodes. We'll both just agree the third season is mostly horrible. Go ahead and put whether each episode is good or bad.

Season 1

1. "The Corbomite Maneuver" (11/10/1966)
2. "Mudd's Women" (10/13/1966)
3. "The Enemy Within" (10/6/1966)
4. "The Man Trap" (9/8/1966)
5. "The Naked Time" (9/29/1966)
6. "Charlie X" (9/15/1966)
7. "Balance of Terror" (12/15/1966)
8. "What are Little Girls Made Of?" (10/20/1966)
9. "Dagger of the Mind" (11/3/1966)
10. "Miri" (10/27/1966)
11. "The Conscience of the King" (12/8/1966)
12. "The Galileo Seven" (1/5/1967)
13. "Court Martial" (2/2/1967)
14. "The Menagerie" part 1 / "The Menagerie" part 2 (11/17/1966, 11/24/1966)
15. "Shore Leave" (12/29/1966)
16. "The Squire of Gothos" (1/12/1967)
17. "Arena" (1/19/1967)
18. "The Alternative Factor" (3/23/1967)
19. "Tomorrow is Yesterday" (1/26/1967)
20. "The Return of the Archons" (2/9/1967)
21. "A Taste of Armageddon" (2/23/1967)
22. "Space Seed" (2/16/1967)
23. "This Side of Paradise" (3/2/1967)
24. "The Devil in the Dark" (3/9/1967)
25. "Errand of Mercy" (3/16/1967)
26. "The City on the Edge of Forever" (4/6/1967)
27. "Operation: Annihilate!" (4/13/1967)

Season 2

1. "Catspaw" (10/27/1967)
2. "Metamorphosis" (11/10/1967)
3. "Friday's Child" (12/1/1967)
4. "Who Mourns for Adonais?" (9/22/1967)
5. "Amok Time" (9/15/1967)
6. "The Doomsday Machine" (10/20/1967)
7. "Wolf in the Fold" (12/22/1967)
8. "The Changeling" (9/29/1967)
9. "The Apple" (10/13/1967)
10. "Mirror, Mirror" (10/6/1967)
11. "The Deadly Years" (12/8/1967)
12. "I, Mudd" (11/3/1967)
13. "The Trouble with Tribbles" (12/29/1967)
14. "Bread and Circuses" (3/15/1968)
15. "Journey to Babel" (11/17/1967)
16. "A Private Little War" (2/2/1968)
17. "The Gamesters of Triskelion" (1/5/1968)
18. "Obsession" (12/15/1967)
19. "The Immunity Syndrome" (1/19/1968)
20. "A Piece of the Action" (1/12/1968)
21. "By Any Other Name" (2/23/1968)
22. "Return to Tomorrow" (2/9/1968)
23. "Patterns of Force" (2/16/1968)
24. "The Ultimate Computer" (3/8/1968)
25. "The Omega Glory" (3/1/1968)
26. "Assignment: Earth" (3/29/1968)