RichC2

Possible, I didn't watch the trilogy until I was about 16 years old (so roughly 1998-ish). I enjoyed the first two but fell asleep a few times on RotJ, there was something about the movie that just didn't mesh well for me. The Ewoks though never bothered me. For that matter, I didn't think JarJar Binks was the biggest insult in cinematic history either. New Hope and Empire felt focused and were interesting, Jedi felt like a mish mash of ideas and settings that never cohered to a competent whole.

I've watched it again since then and still don't get it, it's a pretty big misfire imho.

I didn't have a ton of expectation for Phantom Menace, but still thought it was more entertaining than Attack of the Clones which was a total slog to get through or Sith which was just hilariously bad. I'm not saying the Prequel Trilogy is better than Jedi, Phantom Menance was largely mediocre and still the best entry, but all four are a big step down from the above average original and Empire.

Mike86

I don't think its revisionism that Return of the Jedi was always viewed as the weak link of the Original Trilogy, but I think that certain people tend to over-exaggerate how bad the film actually is. It is weaker in comparison to A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back, but I would say that it easily is still better than the Prequel Trilogy as a whole. The biggest problem with the film is that it should have been more fleshed out and there probably should have been two films for the finale rather than just one.

Draven

Jedi has my favorite space battle in the whole series, but when I saw the re-release in the theater, I actually fell asleep in the middle because it's so. Fucking. Boring. And I'm old enough to have seen the original theatrical release.

So it's not revisionist for me - it's the weakest of the three.

Guru Askew

People just wanna say OT: good, PT: bad and like just about everything in life the reality of that is a lot more complicated.

I like the same stuff everyone else likes in Jedi. Most of the Jabba's Palace stuff. The speeder bikes. Vader, Luke and the Emperor. The Death Star attack. But the flaws are very real and are a lot more substantial than the flaws that exist in the other two movies.

Furthermore, Jedi's mediocrety basically killed the series for more than a decade. You can say what you want about the prequels but nothing post-PT compares to the wasteland that was the Star Wars brand from 1984-1994.

Mike86

I don't see how its that boring. Jabba's Palace, the speeder bike chase, decent space battle, the throne room duel between Vader and Luke/the reveal of Vader at the end. Even the Battle of Endor isn't that bad, but I've never hated the Ewoks like a lot of people do. There's a lot of good stuff there. I think it just feels rushed is the big thing it has going against it.

stvn1974

People who think that Jedi is as bad as or worse than the prequels shouldn't be allowed to watch movies.

hanshotfirst1138

Nearly everything which is going to go wrong in the prequels can be seen in ROTJ. It has the good will of the previous installments, the beloved characters, and enough of Kasdan to make part of it good, plus the gleam of nostalgia, but the portents of what's to come are all there.

Draven

It's all of the business of Luke talking...and talking...and talking with Vader. That's where it loses me. And most of the Ewok stuff until the fighting starts.

Mike86

I can somewhat agree that there are signals of what was to come from Lucas, but I think overall the film is still fairly strong and it isn't really fair to say its as bad as the Prequel Trilogy.

Mondo Kane

The way you guys keep on bringing up the prequels, it becomes more apparent that you actually like them.

Guru Askew

I think it's fair to say it's worse than Clones and Sith. I would only rank Menace below it.

And I actually do like the prequels. And I like Jedi too. I have a very agnostic or secular view on these movies. I had a time when I literally thought they were the greatest work of entertainment in the history of mankind and I grew out of that mentality. There are flaws that exist in all 6 and people are simply more willing to accept those flaws in the PT.

RichC2

My thing is I was just never a huge Star Wars fan to begin with. I saw the movies, enjoyed a couple of em and that was that, I still don't really see what elevates them to the level of all time classics but everybody has their own thing.

The reason I think Phantom Menace is the only passable of the PT is because it passed my snooze test, I fell asleep during Attack of the Clones in theaters and nearly did so for Sith. I really have no feelings toward it outside of that and have no intention on rewatching it. Jedi failed that test as well. I personally think Sith is roughly the same quality as Spider-man 3, just replace Emo Parker with Noooooo-coster Vader.

I'm curious to see where they take such a popular franchise since it's such a big piece of pop culture. But I really don't have a dog in this race.

Mike86

Well you're one of the only ones who defends the Prequel Trilogy for whatever reason so I'm not surprised to see you saying that. I personally see very little redeeming value to any of those films and don't care to ever watch them again. I don't think that Return of the Jedi is even close to as bad as any of the prequels, even if it is the weakest of the Original Trilogy.

Sean O'Hara

I don't like Ewoks. They're short and mangy and irritating, and they smell funny when they get wet.

Guru Askew

I'm not one of the only ones who defends them. I'm one of the only ones who defends them online and that is an extremely important distinction.

And I also don't defend them to an unreasonable degree. I don't stick my head in the sand and ignore that they have flaws and deficiencies.

Mike86

I didn't say you're the only one who defends them, I said you're one of the only ones who does.

thebunk

See, this I can get behind. I can see people saying Jedi was weaker then the other two. It automatically had perhaps some of the biggest shoes to fill in following up Empire then any other sequel. But Jedi does not deserve to be lumped into the PT. . . at all.

thebunk

Yeah being the last film in what was supposed to be trilogy can do that. With no new films in the series or spinoffs (and no, the Ewok movies do not count) where it is supposed to go? Really, did you expect the EU novels to keep interest going? Video Game culture (or technology) was still evolving thus all to most of the games were OT based (hell, even Shadows of the Empire was promoted as being between Empire and Jedi) so we are pre KOTOR. Seriously, how did you expect the series to grow and evolve? You are comparing an era of finality to that of one that is being reborn (with a whole history to unearth for a new generation). Apples and oranges.

Mondo Kane

^But that gets a pass just because it's OT, right?

Guru Askew

Not apples and oranges at all. You're aware of the fact that people have known there would eventually be an Episode I, II and III based on the episode numbering used on Empire and the original film in 1980 and 1981 respectively, right?

If you wanna talk revisionism you should address the iffy excuse Lucas came up with about not being able to properly realize the prequels until the late 90s. Star Wars was a phenomenon and Empire and Jedi were simply solid hits and by the time Jedi rolled around the series was yesterday's news. Compare it to ET. Ghostbusters. Back to the Future. Go later and compare it to stuff like Batman and Jurassic Park. Jedi made the series seem like a dusty old relic. Had things gone differently we probably would have had a prequel trilogy that wrapped in the mid 90s. The demand just wasn't there. The demand wasn't even there for comics and novels which are historically easy to pump out when the higher-profile and more expensive incarnations dry up in the sci-fi and fantasy genres.

But hey, revisionism is the theme of the day and we might as well entertain this one. Lucas left the world hungry for more Star Wars in 1983 and the Star Wars trilogy was seen as a top-tier entertainment franchise throughout the rest of the 80s and early 90s. It sure makes for a great story.

Mike86

I don't think I agree with that. There could have been more sequels (or prequels) made shortly after Return of the Jedi and I can almost guarantee that they would have still been succesful. The Prequel Trilogy overall probably had more success as the hype of a new Star Wars film after sixteen years was huge, but the brand as a whole I think was stong enough that it would have been able to sustain itself for a while longer after 1983.

taffer

What's this nonsense about the Star Wars franchise being dead after ROTJ because there was no more demand for it?

Sure, there weren't any more movies, but that doesn't mean there wasn't a demand for the franchise. Lucas just kept flip flopping and couldn't make up his mind what he wanted to do with the movies.

However, there was still a lot of Star Wars media outside the movies.

There were a couple animated series, one with ewoks and another with the droids.

There were several Star Wars video games on the NES and SNES. Also, who can forget the awesome X-Wing/TIE Fighter series on PC?

The EU novels hit it big with the Thrawn trilogy in the early 90s. That trilogy especially sold like hotcakes.

Marvel Comics printed Star Wars comics through the late 80s, and then Dark Horse Comics continued on where Marvel left off.

So there was tons of Star Wars stuff in the late 80s/early 90s... cartoons, video games, books, comic books, etc... Star Wars was far from a dead franchise.

Abob Teff

You don't have children, do you?

Artman

I still get a laugh out of it.

Works better than any attempted humor in the PT...

joe_b

Really? Critical assessment aside, Jedi is still the fifteenth highest grossing movie of all time on the domestic charts when adjusted for inflation. The series was still a juggernaut. Out of the other films mentioned, only E.T. sold more tickets than Jedi in the US. I suspect Lucas' divorce from Marcia had more to do with the long break between trilogies than anything else.