Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher
#6426
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis
But didn't they do that in the EU comics? I know all that is disregarded but it doesn't mean they can't still take elements of it and just do their own spin on things like that.
#6428
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis
The ending where Luke gives into his anger and chops Vader's hand off? Remember, according to Yoda, once you start down the path to the Dark Side, there's no turning back.
#6429
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis
I don't want to start analyzing star wars, just pointing out that this seems like a road Abrams might go down. I hope he doesn't, but in the video he does say he thinks its a cool idea.
#6431
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis
Ah, rumors have been all over the place. JJ said some are true, some false.
I think they might show Luke struggling to stay away from the dark side at first. But then he saves the day.
I think they might show Luke struggling to stay away from the dark side at first. But then he saves the day.
#6432
DVD Talk Legend
#6433
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis
Watch all of the movies. Yoda was a fucking idiot. In the prequels, he lets one Sith Lord operate right under his nose and take down the entire Galactic Republic and the Jedi Order. In the OT he does nothing but give Luke bad advice. The "wisdom" he doles out is little more than fortune cookie homilies, and Luke ignored what Yoda told him to do with regards to Vader and the Empire at every turn and ends up bringing down the Emperor who kicked Yoda's ass. Keep in mind that Yoda is a 900 year old Jedi Master and Luke is barely twenty years old and raised on a backwater farm.
#6434
Banned
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis
Yoda didn't know jack shit.
Watch all of the movies. Yoda was a fucking idiot. In the prequels, he lets one Sith Lord operate right under his nose and take down the entire Galactic Republic and the Jedi Order. In the OT he does nothing but give Luke bad advice. The "wisdom" he doles out is little more than fortune cookie homilies, and Luke ignored what Yoda told him to do with regards to Vader and the Empire at every turn and ends up bringing down the Emperor who kicked Yoda's ass. Keep in mind that Yoda is a 900 year old Jedi Master and Luke is barely twenty years old and raised on a backwater farm.
Watch all of the movies. Yoda was a fucking idiot. In the prequels, he lets one Sith Lord operate right under his nose and take down the entire Galactic Republic and the Jedi Order. In the OT he does nothing but give Luke bad advice. The "wisdom" he doles out is little more than fortune cookie homilies, and Luke ignored what Yoda told him to do with regards to Vader and the Empire at every turn and ends up bringing down the Emperor who kicked Yoda's ass. Keep in mind that Yoda is a 900 year old Jedi Master and Luke is barely twenty years old and raised on a backwater farm.
Also, Luke was more lucky than anything else. If Vader hadn't been determined to recruit Luke instead of kill him, Luke would have died on Cloud City. Luke also didn't stand a chance against the Emperor either. Again it was luck that Vader killed the Emperor for him.
#6435
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis
Yoda was an idiot. The only reason Luke didn't get defeated both times was because Vader still had a soft spot for his kid. None of Yoda's training in the end meant anything.
Also count me among those that think Luke did start to give into the dark side in RotJ. It allowed him to become much more powerful and I don't think it would be a stretch to see his struggle with that and perhaps succumb to it.
Also count me among those that think Luke did start to give into the dark side in RotJ. It allowed him to become much more powerful and I don't think it would be a stretch to see his struggle with that and perhaps succumb to it.
#6436
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis
#6437
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis
I don't see how you'd say he gave in to the Dark Side though really. Yes when Vader mentioned trying to turn Leia that pissed him off and he lost it a bit and got more aggressive and chopped off Vader's hand, but in the instance afterwards he looks down at his gloved mechanical hand and to me saw what could be if he turned. Real people struggle with emotions and though Luke is a Jedi and that supposedly makes him in complete control I don't know that that's always true. Especially given that he was trained in a relatively short period of time and both his mentors passed pretty early and he probably has a lot to figure out on his own. It would make sense to see him struggling a bit but turning him I feel would be dumb.
#6438
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis
If you only watch the OT, Obi-Wan and Yoda are constantly warning about the Dark aside of the Force and how it is so seductive. Taken in that context, I'd say Luke was definitely flirting with the Dark Side in ROTJ.
But then when the PT came around, it doesn't seem like much of a concern. We're only told that a tiny handful of Jedi have ever left the Order, and everyone seems unable to accept that Dooku would betray the Jedi. In the prequels, Luke's actions probably wouldn't have blipped on the dark radar. We saw Yoda, Obi-Wan and Mace Windu prepared to fire up their lightsabres and go execute people.
Maybe they learned their lesson? Or were concerned that Luke was in danger of going to the Dark Side like his father.
But then when the PT came around, it doesn't seem like much of a concern. We're only told that a tiny handful of Jedi have ever left the Order, and everyone seems unable to accept that Dooku would betray the Jedi. In the prequels, Luke's actions probably wouldn't have blipped on the dark radar. We saw Yoda, Obi-Wan and Mace Windu prepared to fire up their lightsabres and go execute people.
Maybe they learned their lesson? Or were concerned that Luke was in danger of going to the Dark Side like his father.
Last edited by Josh-da-man; 03-01-15 at 03:34 PM.
#6439
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
You mean, "an idiot, Yoda was?"
Luke never finished it, it's entirely possible that if he had he'd have become a Jedi badass.
ROTJ has Luke dressing black and draws clear parallels between his and Vader's mechanical parts. He was obviously tempted. I imagine that Kasdan, Kershner, and Kurtz wanted to do more with it before Lucas decided to end it was that particular movie.
The only reason Luke didn't get defeated both times was because Vader still had a soft spot for his kid. None of Yoda's training in the end meant anything.
Also count me among those that think Luke did start to give into the dark side in RotJ. It allowed him to become much more powerful and I don't think it would be a stretch to see his struggle with that and perhaps succumb to it.
#6440
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis
It was a missed opportunity to have Luke just be tempted like that and then quickly snap out of it.
#6441
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
I didn't find out until fairly recently that Lucas nixed the plans that Kurtz and co had planned more and to expand the mythology after ESB and Lucas nixed it and made everything get wrapped up in one movie, but it explains a lot.
#6442
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis
But had he stayed and finished the training he probably would have become a much better Jedi, and defeated Vader and Palpatine easily.
Where can we read about this?
#6443
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis
#6444
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis
Even though at the time it wasn't known that Yoda had faced Palpatine before he did make it obvious that he was more powerful that Luke could imagine.
#6445
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis
#6446
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Sean was talking about it earlier in the thread, I assume he got it from The Secret History of Star Wars or Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays, and I'm sure that there are all kinds of places online with the info. I'm normal pretty up on this stuff, but though that galaxy far, far away was one of my first loves, I've been bitterly avoiding most stuff related to it since seeing the prequels after the Great Star Wars Divorce of 1997
. Alas, the wound was a deep one.
![Frown](/images/smilies/frown.gif)
#6448
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis
Also, Luke was more lucky than anything else. If Vader hadn't been determined to recruit Luke instead of kill him, Luke would have died on Cloud City. Luke also didn't stand a chance against the Emperor either. Again it was luck that Vader killed the Emperor for him.
#6449
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis
He didn't know there was good in him in ESB. He didn't even know he was his pops at that point. He got his lunch handed to him on Cloud City and Vader being soft was the only thing that saved him.
#6450
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis
Spoiler:
There are more alleged details (again, provided by Making Star Wars) on the second act of the film that might shed some light on what leads up to this. The gist of it:
Spoiler:
Last edited by joe_b; 03-04-15 at 05:44 AM.