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Old 02-28-15, 05:00 AM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis

But didn't they do that in the EU comics? I know all that is disregarded but it doesn't mean they can't still take elements of it and just do their own spin on things like that.
Old 02-28-15, 05:24 AM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis

Regardless pulling shit like that would be beyond dumb.
Old 02-28-15, 09:15 AM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis

Originally Posted by lukewarmwater
In the begining of this video J.J. Abrams mentions
Spoiler:
The idea of making luke skywalker a villain.
It's the first question at the very beginning of the video. He denies it like a politician would. If they did that though it would undermine ROTJ and the ending to that.
The ending where Luke gives into his anger and chops Vader's hand off? Remember, according to Yoda, once you start down the path to the Dark Side, there's no turning back.
Old 02-28-15, 10:07 AM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara
The ending where Luke gives into his anger and chops Vader's hand off? Remember, according to Yoda, once you start down the path to the Dark Side, there's no turning back.
I don't want to start analyzing star wars, just pointing out that this seems like a road Abrams might go down. I hope he doesn't, but in the video he does say he thinks its a cool idea.
Old 02-28-15, 10:41 AM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara
The ending where Luke gives into his anger and chops Vader's hand off? Remember, according to Yoda, once you start down the path to the Dark Side, there's no turning back.
If that's true, then why didn't Vader just let the Emperor kill Luke?
Old 02-28-15, 11:06 AM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis

Ah, rumors have been all over the place. JJ said some are true, some false.

I think they might show Luke struggling to stay away from the dark side at first. But then he saves the day.
Old 02-28-15, 11:22 AM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara
The ending where Luke gives into his anger and chops Vader's hand off? Remember, according to Yoda, once you start down the path to the Dark Side, there's no turning back.
Spoiler:
To me that seems kind of like bullshit and I've never really bought that Luke started to go down the path of the Dark Side at that moment. He lost it briefly but after he realized what he did after chopping off Vader's hand he realized what was happening and stopped so to me he seemed in control. If that's honestly used as an excuse for him to turn in the new film and become the villain that will be incredibly lame if you ask me. I think Abrams knows that people don't want to see that too and would be pretty stupid to follow that kind of a storyline in my opinion. If anything I agree with what Ranger said in that maybe him being in isolation for years is due to the fact that he was worried about possibly turning and he wanted to be away to protect those that he cared about. Maybe show him struggling a bit but don't fully turn him.
Old 02-28-15, 12:05 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara
The ending where Luke gives into his anger and chops Vader's hand off? Remember, according to Yoda, once you start down the path to the Dark Side, there's no turning back.
Yoda didn't know jack shit.

Watch all of the movies. Yoda was a fucking idiot. In the prequels, he lets one Sith Lord operate right under his nose and take down the entire Galactic Republic and the Jedi Order. In the OT he does nothing but give Luke bad advice. The "wisdom" he doles out is little more than fortune cookie homilies, and Luke ignored what Yoda told him to do with regards to Vader and the Empire at every turn and ends up bringing down the Emperor who kicked Yoda's ass. Keep in mind that Yoda is a 900 year old Jedi Master and Luke is barely twenty years old and raised on a backwater farm.
Old 02-28-15, 12:25 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
Yoda didn't know jack shit.

Watch all of the movies. Yoda was a fucking idiot. In the prequels, he lets one Sith Lord operate right under his nose and take down the entire Galactic Republic and the Jedi Order. In the OT he does nothing but give Luke bad advice. The "wisdom" he doles out is little more than fortune cookie homilies, and Luke ignored what Yoda told him to do with regards to Vader and the Empire at every turn and ends up bringing down the Emperor who kicked Yoda's ass. Keep in mind that Yoda is a 900 year old Jedi Master and Luke is barely twenty years old and raised on a backwater farm.
I think Palpatine operating right under the Jedi's noses says more about Palpatine's power rather than Yoda's being an idiot. It wasn't just Yoda who couldn't sense that Palpatine was a Sith. None of the Jedi could sense it. Whatever Sith magic Palpatine was using to mask himself was clearly more powerful than anything the Jedi had.

Also, Luke was more lucky than anything else. If Vader hadn't been determined to recruit Luke instead of kill him, Luke would have died on Cloud City. Luke also didn't stand a chance against the Emperor either. Again it was luck that Vader killed the Emperor for him.
Old 02-28-15, 02:11 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis

Yoda was an idiot. The only reason Luke didn't get defeated both times was because Vader still had a soft spot for his kid. None of Yoda's training in the end meant anything.

Also count me among those that think Luke did start to give into the dark side in RotJ. It allowed him to become much more powerful and I don't think it would be a stretch to see his struggle with that and perhaps succumb to it.
Old 02-28-15, 02:22 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
In the OT he does nothing but give Luke bad advice.
True: "If you leave now, help them you could (he didn't), but you would destroy all for which they have fought and suffered." (Um... how?)
Old 02-28-15, 02:29 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis

I don't see how you'd say he gave in to the Dark Side though really. Yes when Vader mentioned trying to turn Leia that pissed him off and he lost it a bit and got more aggressive and chopped off Vader's hand, but in the instance afterwards he looks down at his gloved mechanical hand and to me saw what could be if he turned. Real people struggle with emotions and though Luke is a Jedi and that supposedly makes him in complete control I don't know that that's always true. Especially given that he was trained in a relatively short period of time and both his mentors passed pretty early and he probably has a lot to figure out on his own. It would make sense to see him struggling a bit but turning him I feel would be dumb.
Old 02-28-15, 04:00 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis

If you only watch the OT, Obi-Wan and Yoda are constantly warning about the Dark aside of the Force and how it is so seductive. Taken in that context, I'd say Luke was definitely flirting with the Dark Side in ROTJ.

But then when the PT came around, it doesn't seem like much of a concern. We're only told that a tiny handful of Jedi have ever left the Order, and everyone seems unable to accept that Dooku would betray the Jedi. In the prequels, Luke's actions probably wouldn't have blipped on the dark radar. We saw Yoda, Obi-Wan and Mace Windu prepared to fire up their lightsabres and go execute people.

Maybe they learned their lesson? Or were concerned that Luke was in danger of going to the Dark Side like his father.

Last edited by Josh-da-man; 03-01-15 at 03:34 PM.
Old 02-28-15, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Timber
Yoda was an idiot.
You mean, "an idiot, Yoda was?"

The only reason Luke didn't get defeated both times was because Vader still had a soft spot for his kid. None of Yoda's training in the end meant anything.
Luke never finished it, it's entirely possible that if he had he'd have become a Jedi badass.

Also count me among those that think Luke did start to give into the dark side in RotJ. It allowed him to become much more powerful and I don't think it would be a stretch to see his struggle with that and perhaps succumb to it.
ROTJ has Luke dressing black and draws clear parallels between his and Vader's mechanical parts. He was obviously tempted. I imagine that Kasdan, Kershner, and Kurtz wanted to do more with it before Lucas decided to end it was that particular movie.
Old 02-28-15, 06:10 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis

Originally Posted by hanshotfirst1138

ROTJ has Luke dressing black and draws clear parallels between his and Vader's mechanical parts. He was obviously tempted. I imagine that Kasdan, Kershner, and Kurtz wanted to do more with it before Lucas decided to end it was that particular movie.
Right...I think we all thought at the time that Luke's outfit in RotJ was how Jedi dressed and how Kenobi dressed in ANH was just how a crabby old man who lived in the dessert dressed. Turns out his outfit was a clue to his dark side leanings. Anakin's clothes got darker in every movie as well.

It was a missed opportunity to have Luke just be tempted like that and then quickly snap out of it.
Old 02-28-15, 06:40 PM
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I didn't find out until fairly recently that Lucas nixed the plans that Kurtz and co had planned more and to expand the mythology after ESB and Lucas nixed it and made everything get wrapped up in one movie, but it explains a lot.
Old 03-01-15, 12:20 AM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis

Originally Posted by Timber
Yoda was an idiot. The only reason Luke didn't get defeated both times was because Vader still had a soft spot for his kid. None of Yoda's training in the end meant anything.
I don't think Yoda's training mean nothing but I think it was strange that Yoda and Obi-wan are telling Luke not to give into the dark side, and yet they are frustrated when he says that he can't kill his father.



Originally Posted by joe_b
True: "If you leave now, help them you could (he didn't), but you would destroy all for which they have fought and suffered." (Um... how?)
If he left now without finishing his training he *might* be able to save them but at the risk of being captured by Darth Vader and turned to the dark side. Up until that point, the story was that when Anakin turned to the dark side he hunted down and killed all the Jedi. So having another Jedi on the Empire's side would probably finish off the rebel forces for good. And in the end, his friends didn't need him saving them, Lando helped them. The only thing he did was risk his own life, and jeopardizing the success of the rebels.

But had he stayed and finished the training he probably would have become a much better Jedi, and defeated Vader and Palpatine easily.

Originally Posted by hanshotfirst1138
I didn't find out until fairly recently that Lucas nixed the plans that Kurtz and co had planned more and to expand the mythology after ESB and Lucas nixed it and made everything get wrapped up in one movie, but it explains a lot.
Where can we read about this?
Old 03-01-15, 07:04 AM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
We saw Yoda, Obi-Wan and Yoda prepared to fire up their lightsabres and go execute people..
There were two Yodas?

Where shitty prequel puppet Yoda and CGI Yoda supposed to be two different characters?
Old 03-01-15, 08:01 AM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis

Originally Posted by brayzie

But had he stayed and finished the training he probably would have become a much better Jedi, and defeated Vader and Palpatine easily.

Easily? The same Palpatine that the trainer himself couldn't defeat? Luke was never destined to defeat Palpatine, he wasn't strong enough to.

Even though at the time it wasn't known that Yoda had faced Palpatine before he did make it obvious that he was more powerful that Luke could imagine.
Old 03-01-15, 03:35 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis

Originally Posted by RocShemp
There were two Yodas?

Where shitty prequel puppet Yoda and CGI Yoda supposed to be two different characters?
I meant Mace Windu instead of a second Yoda. My typing ability has grown even worse with the virtual keyboard on my iPad.
Old 03-01-15, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by brayzie
Where can we read about this?
Sean was talking about it earlier in the thread, I assume he got it from The Secret History of Star Wars or Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays, and I'm sure that there are all kinds of places online with the info. I'm normal pretty up on this stuff, but though that galaxy far, far away was one of my first loves, I've been bitterly avoiding most stuff related to it since seeing the prequels after the Great Star Wars Divorce of 1997 . Alas, the wound was a deep one.
Old 03-02-15, 11:05 AM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis

Maisie Richardson-Sellers character name is Korr Sella. Maybe she has a big role.
Old 03-02-15, 12:07 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis

Originally Posted by kgrogers1979
Also, Luke was more lucky than anything else. If Vader hadn't been determined to recruit Luke instead of kill him, Luke would have died on Cloud City. Luke also didn't stand a chance against the Emperor either. Again it was luck that Vader killed the Emperor for him.
I don't think there was much luck involved at all, Luke knew there was good in him and he was right. Luke also knew he couldn't defeat the Emperor and Vader.
Old 03-02-15, 12:25 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis

He didn't know there was good in him in ESB. He didn't even know he was his pops at that point. He got his lunch handed to him on Cloud City and Vader being soft was the only thing that saved him.
Old 03-03-15, 05:37 AM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, D: Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fis

Originally Posted by Ranger
Maisie Richardson-Sellers character name is Korr Sella. Maybe she has a big role.
Since she never got an official casting announcement, I kind of doubt it. MSW speculates that she could be playing a character known as "The Emissary", though they aren't positive. Here is their descipiton of the what that character does in the film:

Spoiler:
She's on a secret mission and appears to be working for Leia. She is killed during an attack on "Rose's Pub" and her death brings Leia and Threepio to the planet where they have an awkward meeting with Han.

There are more alleged details (again, provided by Making Star Wars) on the second act of the film that might shed some light on what leads up to this. The gist of it:

Spoiler:
After escaping the brig, Poe appears to part ways with Finn and Rey. I'm guessing he flys his X-Wing back to the rebel base. Finn and Rey find the Falcon docked on the desert planet and steal it to escape the Empire. This is probably the scene from the trailer, which explains why it's being flown poorly. Once in space, the Falcon is "swallowed" by a giant freighter ship. Han is on the freighter and tells the kids to get out.

A gang of some kind contact Han on a video screen. Han informs them about the cargo he's carrying (which is described as creatures of some sort). Han hides Finn and Rey, but they end up pulling a fuse to create a diversion. The living cargo is released and drag Finn away, but Rey manages to rescue him. A big fight ensues with Rey fending off the gang single-handed, though Chewie is injured. They all race off in the Falcon, splattering the "cargo" against the cockpit window in the process.

The crew later meet up with "Rose" (a codename for the little blue alien that is rumored to be Lupita's character). This creature runs a pub on an exotic planet. It's here that she takes the group to a hidden chamber under her establishment and shows them the flashback of Luke finding dead Padawans at an academy. Rey and Kylo Ren are mentioned as being in this flashback, which strongly implies they were once studying under Luke. That would explain how this young girl can handle herself against an entire gang.

I suppose Rey could have been hiding on the desert planet if Kylo is killing all of Luke's students -- and the fact that Han just happened to be close by makes me strongly suspect she's his daughter after all. I'm also guessing this "Rose" character worked with Luke at the academy. Last year, MSW described a piece of concept art featuring one of these aliens instructing a group of students.

The report mentions "Rose" presents the saber to the group and we learn in the flashback that she smuggled it away during a raid (CLAN vs. The Seven, whatever that means). This bit kind of invalidates the "lightsaber floating in space" rumor we've heard previously. Anyway, Finn is fascinated by the weapon, but Rey storms off in disgust. The pub is then destroyed using the Empire's new weapon -- which is how "The Emissary" meets her end. It sounds like she's could be an agent who acts as Leia's eyes and ears in the field. Perhaps she was assigned to keep tabs on Rey from a distance if she really is Leia's daughter? Or maybe she's just spying on Han? Whatever the case, Leia and Threepio seem to come into the picture at this point.

EDIT: More info about Leia's role in the movie -- as well as the super weapons possessed by both sides:

http://makingstarwars.net/2015/03/st...imate-weapons/

Last edited by joe_b; 03-04-15 at 05:44 AM.


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