Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher
11-22-15, 11:58 PM
#9126
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher
Lucas was a fine, and creatively fertile, filmmaker up through Raiders. All the films he made up through and including that one are intelligent, quality efforts. They also are enthusiastic and bold in the way that an artists work can be when he is still not weighed down by convention.
The structure and pacing of SW I still think is remarkable. It might be lost on 21st century viewers who are used to instantaneous gratification from all directions, but it still impresses me.
Another quality to it that I regard very highly is that for all the exposition needed in something like that, it all comes across seamless. He never condescends. The film demands that the audience pay attention and keep up...yet he doesn't make it a needless effort to. He honestly did an incredible job with very tricky material. There are so many ways that could have gone so wrong. Empire was also a strong vision that had to be steered back from Brackets 'missed by a mile' treatment. He knew what he was doing.
Had he stayed that course, RotJ would have been an astounding climax to that trilogy. And he would have had vastly more room to maneuver whenever/if ever he got around to the prequels.
I also give him (and not Spielberg) the majority of credit for Raiders. If you read the story conference transcripts, what is on the screen is HIS vision of the character. Every time Spielberg chimes in, you can see he is still in 1941 mode. All he can see is spectacle and the most cliched character activity. The texture of that film is pretty much Lucas.
But when he cashed out with Jedi, he stayed cashed out. Young Lucas could have worked in trade disputes in a way that gave the material enough context without seeming to be trying to hard to sound adult. But post-Jedi Lucas makes everything sound pretentious and condescending. Once you start talking down to children, it's hard to go back.
The structure and pacing of SW I still think is remarkable. It might be lost on 21st century viewers who are used to instantaneous gratification from all directions, but it still impresses me.
Another quality to it that I regard very highly is that for all the exposition needed in something like that, it all comes across seamless. He never condescends. The film demands that the audience pay attention and keep up...yet he doesn't make it a needless effort to. He honestly did an incredible job with very tricky material. There are so many ways that could have gone so wrong. Empire was also a strong vision that had to be steered back from Brackets 'missed by a mile' treatment. He knew what he was doing.
Had he stayed that course, RotJ would have been an astounding climax to that trilogy. And he would have had vastly more room to maneuver whenever/if ever he got around to the prequels.
I also give him (and not Spielberg) the majority of credit for Raiders. If you read the story conference transcripts, what is on the screen is HIS vision of the character. Every time Spielberg chimes in, you can see he is still in 1941 mode. All he can see is spectacle and the most cliched character activity. The texture of that film is pretty much Lucas.
But when he cashed out with Jedi, he stayed cashed out. Young Lucas could have worked in trade disputes in a way that gave the material enough context without seeming to be trying to hard to sound adult. But post-Jedi Lucas makes everything sound pretentious and condescending. Once you start talking down to children, it's hard to go back.
Last edited by Paul_SD; 11-23-15 at 12:11 AM.
11-23-15, 12:00 AM
#9127
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher
You are correct in that.THX1138 was pretty big among the Starlog readers for obvious reasons. I liked it better than Dark Star.
11-23-15, 01:03 AM
#9128
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher
I think Indiana Jones & Temple of Doom was the first one or possibly Gremlins. That's when they changed the ratings system at least.
11-23-15, 01:10 AM
#9129
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher
Lucas was a fine, and creatively fertile, filmmaker up through Raiders. All the films he made up through and including that one are intelligent, quality efforts. They also are enthusiastic and bold in the way that an artists work can be when he is still not weighed down by convention.
The structure and pacing of SW I still think is remarkable. It might be lost on 21st century viewers who are used to instantaneous gratification from all directions, but it still impresses me.
Another quality to it that I regard very highly is that for all the exposition needed in something like that, it all comes across seamless. He never condescends. The film demands that the audience pay attention and keep up...yet he doesn't make it a needless effort to. He honestly did an incredible job with very tricky material. There are so many ways that could have gone so wrong. Empire was also a strong vision that had to be steered back from Brackets 'missed by a mile' treatment. He knew what he was doing.
Had he stayed that course, RotJ would have been an astounding climax to that trilogy. And he would have had vastly more room to maneuver whenever/if ever he got around to the prequels.
I also give him (and not Spielberg) the majority of credit for Raiders. If you read the story conference transcripts, what is on the screen is HIS vision of the character. Every time Spielberg chimes in, you can see he is still in 1941 mode. All he can see is spectacle and the most cliched character activity. The texture of that film is pretty much Lucas.
But when he cashed out with Jedi, he stayed cashed out. Young Lucas could have worked in trade disputes in a way that gave the material enough context without seeming to be trying to hard to sound adult. But post-Jedi Lucas makes everything sound pretentious and condescending. Once you start talking down to children, it's hard to go back.
The structure and pacing of SW I still think is remarkable. It might be lost on 21st century viewers who are used to instantaneous gratification from all directions, but it still impresses me.
Another quality to it that I regard very highly is that for all the exposition needed in something like that, it all comes across seamless. He never condescends. The film demands that the audience pay attention and keep up...yet he doesn't make it a needless effort to. He honestly did an incredible job with very tricky material. There are so many ways that could have gone so wrong. Empire was also a strong vision that had to be steered back from Brackets 'missed by a mile' treatment. He knew what he was doing.
Had he stayed that course, RotJ would have been an astounding climax to that trilogy. And he would have had vastly more room to maneuver whenever/if ever he got around to the prequels.
I also give him (and not Spielberg) the majority of credit for Raiders. If you read the story conference transcripts, what is on the screen is HIS vision of the character. Every time Spielberg chimes in, you can see he is still in 1941 mode. All he can see is spectacle and the most cliched character activity. The texture of that film is pretty much Lucas.
But when he cashed out with Jedi, he stayed cashed out. Young Lucas could have worked in trade disputes in a way that gave the material enough context without seeming to be trying to hard to sound adult. But post-Jedi Lucas makes everything sound pretentious and condescending. Once you start talking down to children, it's hard to go back.
Bravo!
I just watched Star Wars two nights ago. It never gets old. The original film is so good.
11-23-15, 02:31 AM
#9130
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher
I think the first PG-13 film was Red Dawn, but Gremlins and Temple of Doom provided the impetus for the creation of the rating.
11-23-15, 02:56 AM
#9131
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher
Yeah but even so the first two prequels were both only PG. Not that it matters much I'm just curious what it'll get.
11-23-15, 05:26 AM
#9132
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher
The thing about Lucas is he became a CEO after ESB, and that is when he changed. When he was making THX, Graffiti, Star Wars, he didn't give a shit other then making the movie he wanted and fans could take it or leave it.
But when he is a CEO of a company, then he has to look at the big picture and merchandising is a HUGE part of their company staying financially stable. Whether he was right or wrong, he never wanted to alienate kids because they were his biggest block of revenue for merchandising, video games, etc.
By the time he made the PT, Lucas was past his prime anyway. He was like a great rock band who came out of the 1960's or 70's and then had to transition to pop music and make music video's for MTV in the 1980's. Lucas had kids when he was making the PT and he softened and didn't have that edge to make a great SciFi movie anymore. He's no different then an Eddie Murphy who was on fire in the 1980's on SNL, Delirious, Raw, 48 Hours, Beverly Hills Cop, and now his movies are not the least bit funny cause he lost that edge and became a family man.
The Force Awakens could be a big turkey with JJ & Disney at the helm as only time will tell, but I guarantee if Lucas were writing and directing this movie, it wouldn't be any better then the Prequels.
But when he is a CEO of a company, then he has to look at the big picture and merchandising is a HUGE part of their company staying financially stable. Whether he was right or wrong, he never wanted to alienate kids because they were his biggest block of revenue for merchandising, video games, etc.
By the time he made the PT, Lucas was past his prime anyway. He was like a great rock band who came out of the 1960's or 70's and then had to transition to pop music and make music video's for MTV in the 1980's. Lucas had kids when he was making the PT and he softened and didn't have that edge to make a great SciFi movie anymore. He's no different then an Eddie Murphy who was on fire in the 1980's on SNL, Delirious, Raw, 48 Hours, Beverly Hills Cop, and now his movies are not the least bit funny cause he lost that edge and became a family man.
The Force Awakens could be a big turkey with JJ & Disney at the helm as only time will tell, but I guarantee if Lucas were writing and directing this movie, it wouldn't be any better then the Prequels.
11-23-15, 07:57 AM
#9133
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher
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11-23-15, 08:21 AM
#9134
DVD Talk Special Edition
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher
You are correct in that.It wasn't just a nostalgia piece, it was a change of pace from some of the bleak movies of the time. I remember being in the theater watching when the Dreyfuss character was set upon by Bo and the gang. I fully expected him to get the living shit beat out of him and tossed to the side of the road. It was so cool when he bonded with those guys and they did the cop car. That was totally unexpected. We saw it the first week or so when it came out so we had no idea what it was going to be like. Today it's probably considered more of a comedy but at the time it was a drama to us when it came out. Back in 1973 there was very limited info on plots and the like. It may seem silly now but back in that day it was a big deal.
THX1138 was pretty big among the Starlog readers for obvious reasons. I liked it better than Dark Star.
11-23-15, 08:21 AM
#9135
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher
The structure and pacing of SW I still think is remarkable. It might be lost on 21st century viewers who are used to instantaneous gratification from all directions, but it still impresses me.
Another quality to it that I regard very highly is that for all the exposition needed in something like that, it all comes across seamless. He never condescends. The film demands that the audience pay attention and keep up...yet he doesn't make it a needless effort to. He honestly did an incredible job with very tricky material. There are so many ways that could have gone so wrong.
Another quality to it that I regard very highly is that for all the exposition needed in something like that, it all comes across seamless. He never condescends. The film demands that the audience pay attention and keep up...yet he doesn't make it a needless effort to. He honestly did an incredible job with very tricky material. There are so many ways that could have gone so wrong.
11-23-15, 08:57 AM
#9136
Senior Member
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher
Based off of the final film we saw on the screen I agree with you. However if all the stories are to be believed the film was a mess up until he and his wife scrapped the whole thing and recut it at the last minute. It was a bloated confusing mess which doesn't surprise me when you see the PT. I think history will end up looking at Lucas as a story guy, an idea man that needs to be reigned in. Someone that can come up with great broad ideas but fails at the execution of those ideas.
I haven't read about the development of Star Wars in a long time, but I remember an article or something saying that his wife (at the time) was the one who brought most of the best stuff together in the editing room and also added a lot of emotion to the script/film. Without her (according to what I read), Star Wars would have been a mess like you mentioned.
11-23-15, 09:35 AM
#9137
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher
People lose the talent and edge once they start having kids. I believe Spielberg has acknowledged this in the past. THX is (was until the changes) a great film, and Lucas was a great filmmaker. I know it has been said before, but I hope he lets the public know how his story would have unfolded. I will never accept the disney films as cannon. From the trailers I'm already sick of Will Smith light...
I'm not even a SW fan and I'm excited for this. So much of SW is crap that this looks like an attempt to actually use the property well instead of just adding shit to it.
Will Smith light? Seems like when Fin is in his non Stormtrooper armor... he's another guy having an adventure in this SW universe nothing really surprsing there.
11-23-15, 11:00 AM
#9138
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher
My prediction, he will be more reviled than Jar Jar. The trailers already scream he is a stereotype, something Billy Dee was not.
11-23-15, 11:24 AM
#9139
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher
I haven't seen him do anything stereotypical in any of the teasers or trailers. We barely know anything about him at this point so not sure how a person even comes up with something like that. It's not like they seem to be playing him for comic relief or as just the token black guy in the film. He just seems like a character in the universe.
11-23-15, 11:41 AM
#9140
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher
Didn't he do an "Aw Hell No!" in one of the trailers? I didn't have that feeling until I saw the last two teasers. I truly hope I'm wrong.
11-23-15, 11:51 AM
#9141
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher
I haven't seen him do anything stereotypical in any of the teasers or trailers. We barely know anything about him at this point so not sure how a person even comes up with something like that. It's not like they seem to be playing him for comic relief or as just the token black guy in the film. He just seems like a character in the universe.
Now if he'd shouted, "Yippee!" that'd be different.
11-23-15, 11:58 AM
#9142
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher
Boyega seems like a cool guy and I kind of wish they'd let him use his regular voice in the movie. The trailer indicates Finn was brought up in the First Order, so I understand why they wanted him to sound like a typical stormtrooper. Still, some of his line deliveries feel affected and cheesy out of context (mostly the stuff heard in that talking figure the Disney Store released). We've only gotten small glimpses of the acting style in this movie, so I'm hardly worried about it.
This clip makes me all the more anxious to see this with a packed house on opening night. The reaction should be priceless.
Last edited by joe_b; 11-23-15 at 02:05 PM.
11-23-15, 12:44 PM
#9143
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher
NO SW character will be more reviled then Jar Jar. Meesa says to trust me on dat one!
11-23-15, 04:50 PM
#9144
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher
Seriously people.
11-23-15, 04:59 PM
#9145
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher
11-23-15, 05:00 PM
#9146
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher
11-23-15, 06:00 PM
#9147
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher
11-23-15, 06:57 PM
#9149
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher
11-23-15, 07:17 PM
#9150
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher
Don't forget to set DVR for Jimmy Kimmel tonight. Should be fun and maybe some exclusive footage...