Deftones

I was going to say, the same thing.

Iron_Giant

True on the World's Finest, but that is what I grew up with...so, I can only dream.

Mike86

I liked Under the Red Hood too, it's probably the best of the newer animated DC films other than The Dark Knight Returns Parts 1 and 2. I don't think you can really fault the Bruce Timm DC Animated Universe/Batman: The Animated Series for not using Jason though. The character was not very popular or likable and his eventual demise would have been too violent for a show that was aimed at a younger audience.

Paul_SD

The first point I'd make is, people are ignorant.
That's why advertising/marketing is such a huge dominating business, especially in this country. People are being told everyday what they want in ways both subtle and vulgarly obnoxious. And eventually they come to think they arrive at these desires on their own.

Second point is Marvel is a whole lot different than DC/Warner when it comes to exploiting their properties.
Few outside of comic nerds knew who Iron Man was in April of '08, now he's not only known but liked enough to tent pole character within a tent pole movie. Or who the hell knew about the comic version of Thor in '11.
Or who knows what the Guardians Of The Galaxy are?
For that matter, who the hell ever heard of Darth Vader in April of '77?
DC already has enormous name recognition with a ton of it's characters, yet is wholly inept at sitting down in a room with proven creators and talent and brainstorming ways to TELL A SPECTRUM OF STORIES with these characters that are entertaining and exhilarating the way they could/should be- rather than just appealing to the angry little bitches who love seeing over-militarized fascists running around blowing shit up, looking bad ass, and then getting their glamourized, brooding close-ups to show how much depth they have.

I'm not a rabid Marvel movie fan by any stretch (still haven't seen IM3)- but compared to the dreary, pandering, and frankly fucking silly BS that DC keeps cranking out, the Marvel films have been a breath of fresh air in a stale room in comparision.
And that trend doesn't look to end anytime in the next three-four years.

Dragon Tattoo

And Thank God for that.

stvn1974

I can't wait for the scene where Batman explains to Superman that he fights crime because his parents were murdered right in front of him. Supes then says "yeah, I let my dad get blown away in a tornado." Batman gets pissed and they start fighting.

Paul_SD

Yes, you can expect DC to keep patting you on the head and telling you how mature and serious you are for the next God knows how many years.
As you watch men in capes punch other men in capes.

Why So Blu?

I sure as hell didn't. Only reason I'm even interested in the film is due to James Gunn directing. I still don't know anything about that team.

Paul_SD

I don't either. But it sounds like it could be irreverent fun if everything clicks.

It's also nice to have the feeling again of discovering something new (to me) rather than getting the same dreary shit endlessly re-constituted and re-packaged.

Dragon Tattoo

Tis Cool with me. I like my stories to take themselves seriously. You'll always have your corny old Reeves movies. No one's burning those discs (unfortunately) .

Mike86

I guess I don't see the problem with DC/Warner taking a different approach to their films than what Marvel/Disney are doing. It's been working fairly well for them and it's mostly a vocal group of forum fans who are making a big deal of it (and mostly just with Man of Steel really). I think the Marvel films are fun but I like DC's approach too.

ddrknghtrtns

To be fair that was his douche bag excuse for a foster dad. Not his cool tough as nails space dad.

raven56706

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Paul_SD

Here's the difference.
Otis is corny comic relief, very little more than an aside, but the films overall tone and spirit allows for it's inclusion (in limited doses). That aspect of the film has never bothered me

OTOH,

TDK, the self serious, more superficially mature, movie posits that a ridiculously baroque costumed vigilante (who as the film opens is being sought/wanted by the police and is known for possessing and using military grade weaponry) is allowed unrestricted access to a terrorist suspect in the interrogation room. He also ends the film by taking blame for the murder of the DA- and this plot point is resolved in the next film by every level of law enforcement just shrugging their shoulders when he stops making nightly appearances. "we haven't seen him again so I guess the case is closed."

That is the kind of material you think is soooooo serious and not in any way cornball?
Face it, you'll accept a whole lot of half baked shit as long as the film flatters your sense of bad ass seriousness with a pretentiously reverential, po faced tone.

I don't think anyone here wants to see witless shenanigans. We all want the story to treat it's conflicts seriously and to have the pro/antagonists invested in their goals. But there is some latitude in there for humor and...irreverence. The whole context of a superhero is at it's core irreverent to serious daily life.

JumpCutz

TDK is as silly as can be. People speak of it in hushed reverent tones likes it's some piece of hallowed cinema. It isn't.

bluetoast

I'm surprised the Comic Con nerds didn't start rioting at the announcement and demand that Bale be involved.

Dragon Tattoo

You know it. Add a Zimmer score and I'm there day 1.

Solid Snake

I'll ask.

Why are you such a dick, more than before? What is your problem? There was a level of asshole attitude that was tolerated before cuz some of it brought stuff to the table. Now though it's just you being a dick. Chill the fuck out. Jesus. You're literally trolling with that attitude.

taffer

The idea that Jason wasn't liked is a modern day misconception. If he truly wasn't liked by anyone, then the voting to kill him would have won by an overwhelming margin. It didn't. It was an incredibly close race, and the votes to kill him won by less than 100 votes. In fact, I believe it was Denny O'Neil who later said that they discovered a phone hacker had hacked his phone to call in 100 votes. If that hadn't happened, Jason would have actually lived. Jason was essentially killed by a phone hacker.

As for the DCAU, they could have done Jason's demise in a movie like Mask of the Phantasm or Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker instead of doing it in the TV series itself. In fact, wasn't it in Return of the Joker that Joker tortured Tim to the point of insanity? What happened in that movie wasn't a far cry different from Jason being crowbarred to death.

Solid Snake

And then blown up.

Mike86

I'll admit that the Nolan films have their moments where you have to suspend your disbelief but I wouldn't say the films are really cornball. There's a difference between something in a film not being totally realistic and being cornball. I think the biggest thing that's missed by critics of the less realistic aspects of the Nolan Batman films is that they take Nolan's line about a more realistic approach too literally. As far as I know and I think he actually clarified this is that the trilogy while being more grounded there are moments where you have to just go with it.

Mike86

I've heard the phone hacker story before but still the fact that they wrote that story as an option leads me to believe he wasn't loved either. Also reading stories from the time he was Robin I found him unlikable, I guess that's just my opinion though.

taffer

Death in the Family wasn't written because Jason wasn't loved. This was the beginning of the speculator era and gimmicks to increase sales. Just a few years later Bane would break Batman's back and Doomsday would kill Superman. Those gimmicks weren't done because nobody liked Batman or Superman. They were done to increase sales.

I think the readers that truly didn't like Jason were the old readers who were reading Pre-COIE. COIE drastically changed everything about Jason, and I think these older readers were just the typical old geezers sitting on their porches waving their canes at the young kids saying everything was so much better in the old days.

Personally I started reading comics in 1988 when I was 9 years old, so I grew up with post-COIE DC. I have gone back and read some older DC, but I don't like them as much. To me pre-COIE Jason was boring and a carbon copy of Dick right down to the same circus acrobat origin. Heck, pre-COIE Jason was originally a red-head and dyed his hair black to be like Dick. I personally thought post-COIE was a huge improvement by actually making Jason unique instead of a carbon copy of Dick.

Mike86

Fair enough but the difference with A Death in the Family compared to other big arcs of the time was it actually lasted for quite a long time before he was brought back, unlike Death of Superman which was a gimmick pretty much from the start.

taffer

Hal Jordan and Barry Allen were dead just as long as Jason Todd. I wouldn't say Hal and Barry were hated by fans.