Michael Corvin

^^ Agile Batman was one of the areas where Snyder"s vision worked. He moved like a superhero. This Batman seems to have taken a 35 year step backward and made him as stiff as Keaton.

tanman

I do have to say even with all of it's issues I love the scene of Batman rescuing Martha (I know I know) in BvS. It was such a different Batman then one we've seen before on screen. Brutal, efficient, raw.

Draven

That scene is my favorite live-action Batman scene ever. He seemed formidable for the first time and moved much closer to the agility of an animated Batman.

IBJoel

I found Snyder's Batman to be too much and inhuman. Not even Ashton Eaton or Kevin Mayer could move the way he did, much less someone with 50lbs on those guys, who is then wearing an extra 50lbs of gear (or more likely 75-100lbs in Justice League). Then he gets shot in the head and it's nothing. Even with a titanium helmet, a point blank shot is going to disorient for a few moments at the very least. Stabbed in the shoulder? No arm function lost. Fought an alien demi-god nearly to the death? He's fine and taking on two dozen guys the next scene.

I understand for most people that kind of stuff works in that kind of movie, but I prefer a Batman with limits closer to a real person. In terms of agility, we must've watched two different films. Pattinson may not have incorporated so many gymnastics, but he still moved quite well in action sequences.

Michael Corvin

The only scene where he showed any agility at all was the hallway shot in complete darkness.

IBJoel

I don't know how you can compare the Batman/Catwoman fights from Batman Returns and The Batman and come away saying there's no real difference in movement. Or look at the final fight sequence where Pattinson is jumping, running, flipping, etc

SmackDaddy

Have watched this a few more times now that it's on HBO, and it's by far my favorite version of Batman and my favorite Batman movie (Batman '89 has been dethroned). Aside from my initial likes on my first viewing it really is, IMO, the most balanced Batman film. Great villain portrayal that didn't overshadow Batman, excellent supporting cast all around, Batman using his brain as much as his brawn and minimal gadgets. I hope Reeves is able to continue this series without the clown show that is WB interfering in the name of bigger box office.

tanman

Like you said I think it fit in quite well with a JL Batman who went up against stronger enemies. He's going to be a bit bigger and tougher. But yeah I agree with you I don't like Batman taking point blank shots like that. It's just totally unrealistic and just makes him look dumb letting someone get the drop on him like that. The Martha scene gets pretty close but I've yet to have seen a live action sequence of Batman really using his intelligence when fighting. Like the Arkham series of games where he's really stalking his prey. It's usually about gadgets and shear strength.

Thinking about it again the final Joker confrontation in TDK was pretty intelligent when he takes out the Joker goons and the police for their own safety.


He didn't show any agility in that scene. He just casually walked up to the bad guys and took a couple of seconds of point black machine gun fire to the chest. I hated that part. It was shot well and the rest of the scene was great but him just casually walking up while being fired upon was just ridiculous. Compare that to TDKR where Bale's Batman actually dodges the machine gun fire as he gets closer to the goons.

tanman

He hit everything right on the head.

Draven

It's not "bomb to the face" but we were watching this last night since my wife didn't see it in theaters and I completely forgot that Batman uses a huge amount of explosives on a dome to drop in on the Riddler's henchman, sending shards of glass raining down on a panicked crowd 100 feet below him. Didn't need to blow up the whole ceiling, Bruce

DaveyJoe

A huge element of the movie and Batman's character arc is how he's not always making the best decisions; in fact a lot of his actions are directly leading to more terror and violence towards innocent people. This is the opposite approach of Nolan's films, where for example, The Dark Knight has a pro-conservative slant justifying illegal surveillance; The Batman is quite critical of the caped crusader's methods and by the end of the film he starts to realize that he needs to do better.

Why So Blu?

Batman is also a rookie here. It's essentially "Year Two" of his story.

Draven

I'm not even a crime-fighter and I know not to be that reckless with explosives. There's making tactical mistakes and psychopathic mistakes.

Of course the GCPD also unloaded their pistols up a staircase full of police department employees to...kill Batman?...for some reason. So I guess everyone is making bad decisions.

DaveyJoe

You don't seem willing to accept that Batman is portrayed as an anti-hero in this film.

And yes, aside from Gordon, the GCPD is portrayed in an extremely negative light.

Draven

Are there other examples in this movie of Batman being an anti-hero and wildly irresponsible with the safety of people in Gotham? He has a no guns policy, makes an effort not to kill anyone and goes out of his way to avoid traffic accidents in the Batmobile. Where's the anti?

Or it's lazy filmmaking like every other time cops unload their guns on busy streets in movies.

IBJoel

He's a classical anti-hero, being plagued by flaws and self-doubt, but I agree that he's much more outright heroic than pretty much any other live-action version, minus maybe Adam West.

However, in the eyes of the people of Gotham, he is still an outsider, violent vigilante. And only Gordon seems to know that he hasn't or won't kill anyone.

DaveyJoe

People definitely died in that wreck. It would have been safer for the citizens of Gotham if Batman decided not to pursue The Penguin on a public highway, and apprehended him at a later time. There's a reason a lot of police departments have considered banning high-speed chases, if not done so all ready. Also, Reeves modeled the Batmobile after Christine for that scene. A monster that kills people.


I don't see how that's lazy filmmaking at all, it's completely in character for the GCPD. Cops unload their guns on busy streets all the time in real life. The officers firing at a truck carrying two innocent women during the Christopher Dorner situation was one we talked about extensively on this very forum. If anything, The Batman portraying cops as corrupt pieces of shit is more realistic than most other films.

Why So Blu?

Careful with Draven nitpicking the shit out of this. In his eyes, The Batman should have taken notes from the MCU films. Which ones? Who cares, any of the MCU films, because the MCU is perfection.

Draven

EDIT: Deleted my response. So not worth it.

The Batman is the best movie ever made and has zero flaws. I'm convinced.

IBJoel

Ey, let's all just cool off a little and not get too worked up about a fictional crimefighter/the guy I wish was my dad

Why So Blu?

Because the nitpicking never stops. We get it, you didn't like the movie. First it was the bomb exploding, now its this and that and whatever. By the time you're done there will be nothing left to complain about, but I will not be surprised if you find something else. Go watch Endgame or some other MCU infallible-type of film.

Easily fixable? What's there to fix, the film is what it is. It's done. I guess the bomb explosion bothered you so much you can't let it go. Don't kid yourself either, as you've already mentioned, if it wasn't the bomb, it's all these other things like the highway chase, the breaking glass at the end, etc.

stvn1974

The Batman was so boring that I am convinced that Denis Villenueve directed it.

Hokeyboy

Batman is "the same character in every reboot"? There are fundamental differences among the portrayals by Pattinson, Affleck, Bale, and Keaton.

Keaton's Batman was fully formed with zero character growth or narrative arc. He was just your basic Batman and Bruce Wayne, well performed but with paper-thin characterization. Mostly in the background, as the Burton movies served the villains first and foremost. Max Schreck got more screentime than Batman in Batman Returns.

Bale's focus was more on the development of Bruce Wayne in a relatively grounded world consumed by corruption by people in power.

Affleck was a late-stage Batman who was pushed to the brink of all-consuming fascism. Superman pulled him back into the light. There wasn't much difference between Batman and Bruce Wayne.

Pattinson is a Batman where the Bruce Wayne persona was completely obliterated by his drive (or compulsive need) to be Batman, to make any sense of his world. Only by the end of the movie did he realize he needed to be Bruce Wayne as well. I previously called the movie a Bruce Wayne origin story, and I stand by it.

Love the movie or hate it, but calling it "the same character every single time he's rebooted" pretty much means you're not really paying attention, or even care all that much.

DaveyJoe

tanman

Oh that's a cool perspective I didn't even think about. Because that chase scene did bother me. Not the chase itself it was incredibly shot and tense. But the fact that all that wanton destruction and for what? Absolutely nothing. I took that more to be poor writing and I didn't think that it could be part of his character flaw.

My favorite part, and the most unique aspect of this portrayal of Batman, is turning point when the riddler goon says I am vengeance. It really took me back because I absolutely love that line from TAS; I am vengeance... I am the night... I am BATMAN! so when he said it earlier in the movie I was like oh cool I love that. But then to turn it around and seeing throughout the whole movie how much Batman has consumed Bruce to the point there is no Bruce anymore and seeing him slowly realize how much good Bruce can do to culminate in this radicalized riddler good using that line and that motivation which he has clung on to like a security blanket was brilliant. Realizing he can be more then vengeance. I am most curious to see how that develops in the sequel. I mean I don't think he's going to be volunteering in soup kitchens or becoming a volunteer firefighter. But it would be interesting to see him develop the Bruce Wayne persona and using that for good. I have always liked that aspect of the character oftentimes Bruce Wayne can effect his own societal change. Like Batman is protecting the city and preventing crime on a case by case basis but Bruce can actually effect societal change that leads to the environment that produces that crime. They touched a lot on that in the Nolan films.