Star Wars
09-07-11, 09:27 PM
#2401
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
re: Star Wars
Why are people only complaining about it now
But the addition of Hayden Christen is a disservice to the actor who played Anakin in the original trilogy, not to mention it was shoddily done. The "Nooooo" added to the pivotal ROTJ scene is idiotic and ruins the scene. The new Krayt call is also over the top.
So in essence, I've had it. I was more accepting than most when Lucas started changing things. But everyone has their reaching point. Well, he's reached mine.
09-07-11, 09:41 PM
#2402
DVD Talk Gold Edition
re: Star Wars
Yep, the chance to see these movies again on the big screen was a HUGE draw in my opinion that overshadowed all but the Greedo now shooting scene. I know personally I had a very VAGUE recollection of seeing Star Wars since I was just turning 4 the year it came out in the theaters. True I saw it about 80 times during the summer that it came on cable of course.
However I remember vividly seeing the next 2 with my folks as we would literally for both movies sit through the credits then just wait for the films to start back up and watch it twice in 1 day. No ushers to my recollection bothered to aks for our tickets as we just sat there waiting for them to start again
As far as the fuss over the changes back then, sure it was there but the internet was nothing like it is now obviously. So there is your other reason why it just seems that much more overblown this time around.
However I remember vividly seeing the next 2 with my folks as we would literally for both movies sit through the credits then just wait for the films to start back up and watch it twice in 1 day. No ushers to my recollection bothered to aks for our tickets as we just sat there waiting for them to start again
As far as the fuss over the changes back then, sure it was there but the internet was nothing like it is now obviously. So there is your other reason why it just seems that much more overblown this time around.
09-08-11, 03:48 AM
#2404
09-08-11, 07:29 AM
#2405
Suspended
re: Star Wars
^ That would be awesome and funny if he did that.
I would really love to know why he does the things he does. If he thinks that he is making the movies better, then screw him. But if he is just doing this to fuck with people and piss them off, Im all for that.
I would really love to know why he does the things he does. If he thinks that he is making the movies better, then screw him. But if he is just doing this to fuck with people and piss them off, Im all for that.
09-08-11, 10:11 AM
#2406
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re: Star Wars
He's actually acting in the unmasking scene and that was left as-is.
I'll never get all the hatred for the Hayden ghost. I mean, I get that people freak out over ever little thing. I just happen to completely understand why it was done and most people don't even attempt to understand it, they just freak out.
The whole "Anakin died when he became Darth Vader" thing is a the story-based explanation but Lucas obviously recognized that the audience has no connection with Sebastian Shaw as the ghost in the end of the movie. I can buy that Ewan McGregor is a younger version of Alec Guinness. I can buy the Skywalker family lineage, I think Christiansen and Portman resemble Hamill and Fisher, Christiansen is believable as an older Lloyd etc. I don't for one minute buy Sebastian Shaw as an older Hayden Christiansen.
It's perfectly reasonable to want to replace what amounts to a 2-second shot of some guy you've never seen before standing around smiling with a face that you've grown familiar with over two movies.
09-08-11, 10:25 AM
#2407
DVD Talk Legend
re: Star Wars
You're really stretching the definition of "acting" with this example. He's standing still and smiling.
He's actually acting in the unmasking scene and that was left as-is.
I'll never get all the hatred for the Hayden ghost. I mean, I get that people freak out over ever little thing. I just happen to completely understand why it was done and most people don't even attempt to understand it, they just freak out.
The whole "Anakin died when he became Darth Vader" thing is a the story-based explanation but Lucas obviously recognized that the audience has no connection with Sebastian Shaw as the ghost in the end of the movie. I can buy that Ewan McGregor is a younger version of Alec Guinness. I can buy the Skywalker family lineage, I think Christiansen and Portman resemble Hamill and Fisher, Christiansen is believable as an older Lloyd etc. I don't for one minute buy Sebastian Shaw as an older Hayden Christiansen.
It's perfectly reasonable to want to replace what amounts to a 2-second shot of some guy you've never seen before standing around smiling with a face that you've grown familiar with over two movies.
He's actually acting in the unmasking scene and that was left as-is.
I'll never get all the hatred for the Hayden ghost. I mean, I get that people freak out over ever little thing. I just happen to completely understand why it was done and most people don't even attempt to understand it, they just freak out.
The whole "Anakin died when he became Darth Vader" thing is a the story-based explanation but Lucas obviously recognized that the audience has no connection with Sebastian Shaw as the ghost in the end of the movie. I can buy that Ewan McGregor is a younger version of Alec Guinness. I can buy the Skywalker family lineage, I think Christiansen and Portman resemble Hamill and Fisher, Christiansen is believable as an older Lloyd etc. I don't for one minute buy Sebastian Shaw as an older Hayden Christiansen.
It's perfectly reasonable to want to replace what amounts to a 2-second shot of some guy you've never seen before standing around smiling with a face that you've grown familiar with over two movies.
09-08-11, 10:50 AM
#2408
DVD Talk Legend
re: Star Wars
Part of the reason is that the change is unnecessary, part of it is because it changes a facet of a film 20 years later. However, the biggest reason people hate it is because it was the first major insertion of the prequel trilogy into the original films.
I cannot overemphasize enough how much many fans of the original trilogy want to ignore the prequel trilogy entirely. However, these insertions of prequel characters and call-backs make the prequel trilogy impossible to ignore.
As for the original being "a 2-second shot of some guy you've never seen before," that's not true. We just saw him a few minutes ago in the film, albeit horribly disfigured. It's not too much of a stretch for the audience to figure out who the third force ghost is, and in fact for 20 years viewers had been able to do just that without much difficulty. Also, if you watch the films in the correct order (original trilogy first, prequel trilogy second, if at all), then Christiansen is "some guy you've never seen before".
And the whole "Anakin died when he became Darth Vader" thing was just a justification for a lie (or, more accurately, a fix for a continuity error). Remember that Obi-Wan says it's true, but only "from a certain point of view," and that Obi-Wan doesn't believe that Vader can be turned good again at this point. However, if "Anakin" was truly "dead," then Vader never would've turned against the Emperor. This act proves Luke correct: that Anakin was still "alive" in Vader, that there was still good in him, and it came out at the last minute. So if a force ghost is supposed to show a Jedi at the point he last was good, then it should show Sebastian Shaw, since Vader was good at the end. So the change isn't even justifiable from a storytelling angle.
Lucas made the change to tie all 6 films together, and instead of fitting the prequels to what he set up in the originals, he's now simply modifying the original films to make those ties stronger. However, the changes aren't necessary, and are often annoying and a betrayal of how these films had been shown for over 20 years.
09-08-11, 11:07 AM
#2409
re: Star Wars
When the special editions were released in '97 I don't think there was a sense that these modified versions would supplant the original movies. Now we're at the stage where each new release is a completion of Lucas' vision and a proper release of the OOT is apparently out of the question.
09-08-11, 11:21 AM
#2410
DVD Talk Hero
re: Star Wars
I think to say that the people who don't like the change don't understand why it was done is a gross mischaracterization. We know why it was done: to tie the character and story to the prequel trilogy; we just don't like the change.
Part of the reason is that the change is unnecessary, part of it is because it changes a facet of a film 20 years later. However, the biggest reason people hate it is because it was the first major insertion of the prequel trilogy into the original films.
I cannot overemphasize enough how much many fans of the original trilogy want to ignore the prequel trilogy entirely. However, these insertions of prequel characters and call-backs make the prequel trilogy impossible to ignore.
As for the original being "a 2-second shot of some guy you've never seen before," that's not true. We just saw him a few minutes ago in the film, albeit horribly disfigured. It's not too much of a stretch for the audience to figure out who the third force ghost is, and in fact for 20 years viewers had been able to do just that without much difficulty. Also, if you watch the films in the correct order (original trilogy first, prequel trilogy second, if at all), then Christiansen is "some guy you've never seen before".
And the whole "Anakin died when he became Darth Vader" thing was just a justification for a lie (or, more accurately, a fix for a continuity error). Remember that Obi-Wan says it's true, but only "from a certain point of view," and that Obi-Wan doesn't believe that Vader can be turned good again at this point. However, if "Anakin" was truly "dead," then Vader never would've turned against the Emperor. This act proves Luke correct: that Anakin was still "alive" in Vader, that there was still good in him, and it came out at the last minute. So if a force ghost is supposed to show a Jedi at the point he last was good, then it should show Sebastian Shaw, since Vader was good at the end. So the change isn't even justifiable from a storytelling angle.
Lucas made the change to tie all 6 films together, and instead of fitting the prequels to what he set up in the originals, he's now simply modifying the original films to make those ties stronger. However, the changes aren't necessary, and are often annoying and a betrayal of how these films had been shown for over 20 years.
Part of the reason is that the change is unnecessary, part of it is because it changes a facet of a film 20 years later. However, the biggest reason people hate it is because it was the first major insertion of the prequel trilogy into the original films.
I cannot overemphasize enough how much many fans of the original trilogy want to ignore the prequel trilogy entirely. However, these insertions of prequel characters and call-backs make the prequel trilogy impossible to ignore.
As for the original being "a 2-second shot of some guy you've never seen before," that's not true. We just saw him a few minutes ago in the film, albeit horribly disfigured. It's not too much of a stretch for the audience to figure out who the third force ghost is, and in fact for 20 years viewers had been able to do just that without much difficulty. Also, if you watch the films in the correct order (original trilogy first, prequel trilogy second, if at all), then Christiansen is "some guy you've never seen before".
And the whole "Anakin died when he became Darth Vader" thing was just a justification for a lie (or, more accurately, a fix for a continuity error). Remember that Obi-Wan says it's true, but only "from a certain point of view," and that Obi-Wan doesn't believe that Vader can be turned good again at this point. However, if "Anakin" was truly "dead," then Vader never would've turned against the Emperor. This act proves Luke correct: that Anakin was still "alive" in Vader, that there was still good in him, and it came out at the last minute. So if a force ghost is supposed to show a Jedi at the point he last was good, then it should show Sebastian Shaw, since Vader was good at the end. So the change isn't even justifiable from a storytelling angle.
Lucas made the change to tie all 6 films together, and instead of fitting the prequels to what he set up in the originals, he's now simply modifying the original films to make those ties stronger. However, the changes aren't necessary, and are often annoying and a betrayal of how these films had been shown for over 20 years.
09-08-11, 11:40 AM
#2411
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
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re: Star Wars
Of course Guru Askew has pretty much chosen to be "that guy" who disagrees with absolutely everything as if he's above it all, just for the sake of being "that guy". This thread surely isn't the first example of that. Difference of opinion is one thing, but with being "that guy" it's just too transparent in what he's been saying over time.
Not to mention that when you look at what Hayden is doing in that scene standing there, HE IS NOT EVEN LOOKING IN THE SAME DIRECTION as Obi-Wan and Yoda are looking. He's looking directly at the damn camera posing!
So when you look past the notion of whether Hayden's image belongs there or not, the simple fact is it's a poorly done, half-assed visual effect that simply doesn't match.
Take a look at the scene from the DVD or screen shots, or the rip, and you'll see.
Not to mention that when you look at what Hayden is doing in that scene standing there, HE IS NOT EVEN LOOKING IN THE SAME DIRECTION as Obi-Wan and Yoda are looking. He's looking directly at the damn camera posing!
So when you look past the notion of whether Hayden's image belongs there or not, the simple fact is it's a poorly done, half-assed visual effect that simply doesn't match.
Take a look at the scene from the DVD or screen shots, or the rip, and you'll see.
09-08-11, 11:54 AM
#2412
DVD Talk Limited Edition
re: Star Wars
I'll never get all the hatred for the Hayden ghost. I mean, I get that people freak out over ever little thing. I just happen to completely understand why it was done and most people don't even attempt to understand it, they just freak out.
The whole "Anakin died when he became Darth Vader" thing is a the story-based explanation but Lucas obviously recognized that the audience has no connection with Sebastian Shaw as the ghost in the end of the movie. I can buy that Ewan McGregor is a younger version of Alec Guinness. I can buy the Skywalker family lineage, I think Christiansen and Portman resemble Hamill and Fisher, Christiansen is believable as an older Lloyd etc. I don't for one minute buy Sebastian Shaw as an older Hayden Christiansen.
It's perfectly reasonable to want to replace what amounts to a 2-second shot of some guy you've never seen before standing around smiling with a face that you've grown familiar with over two movies.
Why its wrong, is it totally misses the point of the movie Return of the Jedi. Who becomes conflicted throughout the movie? 60 year old Anakin, not 25 year old Anakin. Who saves his son when and killing the Emperor? 60 year old Anakin, not 25 year old Anakin. So, they are the same person because even though Vader is wearing a black mask and is perceived as evil, there is a touch of good in him that only Luke feels, and that is what makes his final decision to save his son.
So the 60 year old Anakin who is sitting inside Vaders suit the whole time IS the one who redeems himself by saving his son, not the 25 year old Anakin who burned on Mustafar. So it only makes sense that his 60 year old ghost is shown in the final scene.
Plus Alec Guiness would be pissed that he is in Jedi heaven as an old man, and Hayden who committed numerous murders is sitting in heaven as heartthrob Hayden Christenson.
09-08-11, 12:19 PM
#2414
DVD Talk Legend
re: Star Wars
He didn't "die" when he became Vader. He died at the end of Jedi. You can say Anakin went away for a couple of decades but he definitely died as Anakin. As was just stated above me, "Return of the Jedi". It's the title of the freaking movie, Anakin returned.
09-08-11, 02:19 PM
#2416
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re: Star Wars
I just cancelled my Amazon pre-order. It asks for the reason for the cancel and I expressed my disappointment at the alterations.
If you don't like the changes, I suggest going to every site you can, put in a pre-order, then cancel it and cite the alterations as the reason.
Lucas's sales team will hear about it when the number of cancels hits the 1 million mark. They might be able to convince GL to put out the OTs.
If you don't like the changes, I suggest going to every site you can, put in a pre-order, then cancel it and cite the alterations as the reason.
Lucas's sales team will hear about it when the number of cancels hits the 1 million mark. They might be able to convince GL to put out the OTs.
09-08-11, 03:00 PM
#2418
Banned by request
re: Star Wars
I just cancelled my Amazon pre-order. It asks for the reason for the cancel and I expressed my disappointment at the alterations.
If you don't like the changes, I suggest going to every site you can, put in a pre-order, then cancel it and cite the alterations as the reason.
Lucas's sales team will hear about it when the number of cancels hits the 1 million mark. They might be able to convince GL to put out the OTs.
If you don't like the changes, I suggest going to every site you can, put in a pre-order, then cancel it and cite the alterations as the reason.
Lucas's sales team will hear about it when the number of cancels hits the 1 million mark. They might be able to convince GL to put out the OTs.
09-08-11, 03:06 PM
#2419
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
re: Star Wars
I just cancelled my Amazon pre-order. It asks for the reason for the cancel and I expressed my disappointment at the alterations.
If you don't like the changes, I suggest going to every site you can, put in a pre-order, then cancel it and cite the alterations as the reason.
Lucas's sales team will hear about it when the number of cancels hits the 1 million mark. They might be able to convince GL to put out the OTs.
If you don't like the changes, I suggest going to every site you can, put in a pre-order, then cancel it and cite the alterations as the reason.
Lucas's sales team will hear about it when the number of cancels hits the 1 million mark. They might be able to convince GL to put out the OTs.
09-08-11, 03:18 PM
#2420
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
re: Star Wars
I just cancelled my Amazon pre-order. It asks for the reason for the cancel and I expressed my disappointment at the alterations.
If you don't like the changes, I suggest going to every site you can, put in a pre-order, then cancel it and cite the alterations as the reason.
Lucas's sales team will hear about it when the number of cancels hits the 1 million mark. They might be able to convince GL to put out the OTs.
If you don't like the changes, I suggest going to every site you can, put in a pre-order, then cancel it and cite the alterations as the reason.
Lucas's sales team will hear about it when the number of cancels hits the 1 million mark. They might be able to convince GL to put out the OTs.
Uh... yeah... good luck on that. I think most other people have better things to do with their time.
09-08-11, 03:20 PM
#2421
DVD Talk Legend
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re: Star Wars
I just cancelled my Amazon pre-order. It asks for the reason for the cancel and I expressed my disappointment at the alterations.
If you don't like the changes, I suggest going to every site you can, put in a pre-order, then cancel it and cite the alterations as the reason.
Lucas's sales team will hear about it when the number of cancels hits the 1 million mark. They might be able to convince GL to put out the OTs.
If you don't like the changes, I suggest going to every site you can, put in a pre-order, then cancel it and cite the alterations as the reason.
Lucas's sales team will hear about it when the number of cancels hits the 1 million mark. They might be able to convince GL to put out the OTs.
Excellent! We finally have him against the ropes. We shall be victorious!
09-08-11, 03:24 PM
#2422
DVD Talk Legend
re: Star Wars
I also canceled my Amazon pre-order, but not because of the alterations. I simply don't really feel the need to watch these movies anymore, not even in HD. SW and TESB will always be favorites, but honestly these days I'd sooner watch something by Wes Anderson or Charlie Kaufman. Something that rewards the viewer with nuance or abstraction. I can wait a long time for a price drop.
09-08-11, 05:21 PM
#2423
DVD Talk Special Edition
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re: Star Wars
I just cancelled my Amazon pre-order. It asks for the reason for the cancel and I expressed my disappointment at the alterations.
If you don't like the changes, I suggest going to every site you can, put in a pre-order, then cancel it and cite the alterations as the reason.
Lucas's sales team will hear about it when the number of cancels hits the 1 million mark. They might be able to convince GL to put out the OTs.
If you don't like the changes, I suggest going to every site you can, put in a pre-order, then cancel it and cite the alterations as the reason.
Lucas's sales team will hear about it when the number of cancels hits the 1 million mark. They might be able to convince GL to put out the OTs.
09-08-11, 06:10 PM
#2425
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re: Star Wars
Likewise, I'm keeping my pre-order. Would I prefer to have the original, unaltered versions? Absolutely. However, I was expecting there to be more changes to the films on this set, just as there were on the DVD release. And as dumb as some of these changes are, such as Vader yelling "Noooooo!" in Jedi, they haven't been dumb enough to completely ruin the movies for me. I'm aware of what I'm getting for my money, and I'm OK with it, especially since it is unlikely we will get anything else (aside from various repackagings) on this format.
