Mike86

I'll be honest I've been overly harsh on this film and I realize it. At the end of the day I fully expect I'll see this film and not completely hate it. I just disagree with so many aspects of it, especially given that this is supposed to be our introduction to Batman in this universe. Using influences from The Dark Knight Returns so heavily (let's be honest they are) is totally the opposite direction of what I'd take. I've given my feelings on that story before and feeling like it's an anti-Batman story rather than one that meshes with the way the character is in almost every normal comic. So using that version as such a heavy influence really doesn't sit right with me.

Solid Snake

even beyond DKR, Gotham has had its moments where Batman is not wanted. DKR exists for its reasons and it works. You don't have to like it but it does work for the reasons that brought it and the when of its release. I think it's a pretty damn good story. I can't say whether I like how Snyder is taking some elements from it. But I need to see more to really have an opinion. I DO however like the approach of making Superman something that shakes the world. That makes sense and I'm glad they have that there.

I'm more worried about Goyer's writing than anything. Not sure how I feel about Terrio on it, I guess that could clean up his shit. Snyder and Goyer are a horrible team. They don't have grace for breathing life into characters, specifically Goyer.

Mike86

It isn't Batman not being wanted by Gotham in The Dark Knight Returns. It's how the character acts in that story that's pretty much the total opposite of how the character acts in pretty much every other Batman story.

Solid Snake

Ah. I misinterpreted that.
-------
Not really. He's had moments like that. In and out of mainstream continuity. Mostly out, from what I've seen.

Just honing on DKR. That Batman has his reasons though. The world changed. It isn't the same world that we knew a Bats to have. It was different.

Mike86

He's had moments but that's why I said he normally doesn't act that way. Something usually happens to throw him off kilter temporarily but he usually realizes when he's gone too far. In The Dark Knight Returns he essentially goes crazy and doesn't look back. I realize that Gotham and the world in general is different in that story but I've just never liked it. I think it gets far more praise than it deserves and certainly feel using heavy influences of that version of the character for this film is a weird choice to make overall.

Solid Snake

Weird? Sure, it's far from the norm. Bad? We don't know yet.

Mike86

I guess to me I don't like taking a version of the character that isn't how he is in almost every other instance and using that as the basis for the character in the overall DC Film Universe. If this was a stand alone adaptation of The Dark Knight Returns it'd be different.

kgrogers1979

Also, your whole argument about this movie not being true to Batman is just dumb. You do realize that Batman has not been written consistently the same for 80 years, right? There is no "definitive" Batman in the comics. The writing changes with each writer.

Mike86

Different writers have written him different ways, I've never once argued otherwise. There isn't one definitive Batman and I didn't say that either. My point is that he's had basically the same traits by anyone who's written him other than Miller's interpretation in The Dark Knight Returns which is a pretty radically different version of the character. I'm not the first to say that and I'm sure I won't be the last.

kgrogers1979

Batman most certainly has not had the same traits throughout the years. Batman killed people in the original Bob Kane comics. In the 1960s, the comics were as campy as the Adam West TV series.

That's my point. The writing and tone have changed wildly throughout the decades and with each new writer. You act like this movie HAS to match the comics you read, but honestly the comics don't even match themselves. Every writer is different.

I'm beginning to think Frank Miller raped your childhood or something the way you keep complaining about this.

majorjoe23

Maybe Frank Miller thought his childhood was a whore.

Solid Snake

Probably beat it and had rough sex w/ it.

Mike86

Yes the original Batman killed and carried a gun. I don't argue that at all. However the bulk of his career and the way he's been written hasn't been that way. Basically by the early 40s Batman's no gun rule was established. The version of Batman in The Dark Knight Returns who is an alcoholic, ruthless, cold-hearted, crazy person I'm sorry is not Batman in the majority of stories written about the character.

That isn't to say that the character hasn't evolved and gone through different periods but he has had similar character traits about what he will and won't do for the majority of the time he's been around. Not sure how a person can't recognize that.

Ah the Internet, where if you don't conform to popular opinion about something there must be something wrong with you.

fumanstan

If that rumor/hint is true, I fucking hate it too. And it's not just about DC or this franchise or whatever.

kgrogers1979

And why do you think Batman is going to be like that in this movie? I bet the Dark Knight Returns similarities begin and end with the Batman/Superman fight and the look of the Batsuit. Just like how the similarities between Dark Knight Rises and Knightfall begin and end with Bane "breaking" Batman.


It's not that. It's just that you keep beating the dead horse over and over and over and over and over and over. I bet I could go back and find at least 50 posts in this thread where you complain about this movie and how it's too much like Dark Knight Returns. We get it. You hate that comic. We get it. You don't need to keep repeating it all the time.

Mike86

That may very well be the case. Just for my liking it seems to have more influence from that story than I'd like it to have.

Fair point and I realize it, but at the same time when I make a point against this film I have to defend it or get bombarded. It just so happens that is one of my biggest issues with it thus far.

fumanstan

For what it's worth, even though I made a jab about the complaints earlier I also don't think there's anything wrong with complaining about NEW things we see in the movie, such as the new trailer or rumors or whatever.

stingermck

Comic spoiler for the current talk about spoilers

Abob Teff

Look, up in the sky! It's the return of Abob Teff's Random Page 3 Thoughts!

Certainly an odd vibe from the trailer ... Painting Superman as a bad guy. Really flies in the face of his character development in Man of Steel. It's as if he became Zod. (Smells like a set up, especially since we hear Lex Luthor talking about devils from the sky).

Chicago skyline!

Still less than impressed with Affleck. I don't see a character, I see Affleck. I take it his "Batman voice" is going to be digitally altered ... Or was that line actually lifted from another character?

What's with the Juggalos?

Solid Snake

Those seem to be natives of some sort. That voice we hear is most likely when he's in the armor.

How could you see a character when all you see is just a plain shot of Wayne and some Bats imagery? Maybe it's cuz I don't get attached to actor imagery but I don't get the whole thing about " I don't see a character, I see Affleck."

Mike86

Some actors I do think fall victim to being viewed as playing themselves. I think Affleck has gotten better as an actor and I'm sure he'll be fine in the role, but I do think he can be the type where I find it hard to lose myself in the characters he plays.

hanshotfirst1138

Most of his best roles tend to be foul-mouthed Boston-types-The Town, Good Will Hunting. I just think that he's not an actor with a huge range. He isn't a bad actor, but like you said, it's a little hard not to see Ben Affleck when he's onscreen.

OldBoy

I've always liked Affleck, the actor, see Hollywoodland, but not sure about this role or movie.

PopcornTreeCt

Ben Affleck is the least problematic thing about the trailer.

stingermck

Zack Snyder Reveals Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice Teaser Posters