Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
04-29-15, 08:27 PM
#6001
Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
Looking back, it probably would have been a better idea to end TDK with Dent becoming Two-Face, and then have him as the main villain in TDKR.
04-29-15, 09:03 PM
#6002
DVD Talk Hero
04-29-15, 09:05 PM
#6003
DVD Talk Godfather
Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
04-29-15, 09:12 PM
#6004
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
I know everyone went nuts over Heath Ledger but I was far more impressed with Aaron Eckhart. He had the thankless job to create some semblance of nuance in an incredibly rushed character. To a lesser extent, I feel the same way about Gary Oldman as Gordon. He acted the shit out of his pleading (almost tearful) delivery of "I have to save Dent!" despite the fact that there's no real reason he should feel broken up about Dent's predicament. Yes, Gordon's cops were corrupt and I could take his being pissed about it. But Oldman's performance made it seem as if he deeply cared about Harvey Dent when these characters barely share any history together.
And I was always disappointed that Nolan decided to resolve the Two Face story arc in the final act of TDK. His idea of Two Face versus Joker, with Gotham as their battleground and Batman caught in the middle, for TDKR would have been much better. Heck, having Harvey Dent established as a childhood friend of Bruce Wayne in BB was also the way to go. Nolan made a mistake trying to cram too much into individual movies. The only one to truly pull that off is BB. TDK and TDKR suffer from a lot of bloat.
And I was always disappointed that Nolan decided to resolve the Two Face story arc in the final act of TDK. His idea of Two Face versus Joker, with Gotham as their battleground and Batman caught in the middle, for TDKR would have been much better. Heck, having Harvey Dent established as a childhood friend of Bruce Wayne in BB was also the way to go. Nolan made a mistake trying to cram too much into individual movies. The only one to truly pull that off is BB. TDK and TDKR suffer from a lot of bloat.
04-29-15, 09:55 PM
#6005
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
I feel like whoever is in charge at DC/Warner never really took the proper time to develop a game plan but rather after seeing the success of The Avengers thought to themselves: "Hey, we have something like that. We've got the Justice League. What's the quickest possible way we can get to that?" and Batman V Superman was born which is essentially a springboard into the Justice League film.
Personally I would have went with the route of a sequel to Man of Steel, a Batman film, and a Wonder Woman film. A versus film has never really felt right to me and feels like it's only being done so they can work a bunch of characters into one film rather than having to develop them prior to the Justice League film. To me it seems like that might work against the overall quality of this universe and I don't think people are going to be as invested in these characters as they are the ones from the MCU.
Last edited by Mike86; 04-29-15 at 10:06 PM.
04-29-15, 10:02 PM
#6006
Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
It's pretty sad that their TV and animated film division have more a concrete gameplan than their features.
04-29-15, 10:15 PM
#6007
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
04-29-15, 10:26 PM
#6008
DVD Talk Legend
04-29-15, 10:27 PM
#6009
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
I know everyone went nuts over Heath Ledger but I was far more impressed with Aaron Eckhart. He had the thankless job to create some semblance of nuance in an incredibly rushed character. To a lesser extent, I feel the same way about Gary Oldman as Gordon. He acted the shit out of his pleading (almost tearful) delivery of "I have to save Dent!" despite the fact that there's no real reason he should feel broken up about Dent's predicament. Yes, Gordon's cops were corrupt and I could take his being pissed about it. But Oldman's performance made it seem as if he deeply cared about Harvey Dent when these characters barely share any history together.
And I was always disappointed that Nolan decided to resolve the Two Face story arc in the final act of TDK. His idea of Two Face versus Joker, with Gotham as their battleground and Batman caught in the middle, for TDKR would have been much better. Heck, having Harvey Dent established as a childhood friend of Bruce Wayne in BB was also the way to go. Nolan made a mistake trying to cram too much into individual movies. The only one to truly pull that off is BB. TDK and TDKR suffer from a lot of bloat.
And I was always disappointed that Nolan decided to resolve the Two Face story arc in the final act of TDK. His idea of Two Face versus Joker, with Gotham as their battleground and Batman caught in the middle, for TDKR would have been much better. Heck, having Harvey Dent established as a childhood friend of Bruce Wayne in BB was also the way to go. Nolan made a mistake trying to cram too much into individual movies. The only one to truly pull that off is BB. TDK and TDKR suffer from a lot of bloat.
But I agree the Two Face plot was rushed entirely too much and didn't really fit.
04-29-15, 10:40 PM
#6010
Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
Personally I would have went with the route of a sequel to Man of Steel, a Batman film, and a Wonder Woman film. A versus film has never really felt right to me and feels like it's only being done so they can work a bunch of characters into one film rather than having to develop them prior to the Justice League film. To me it seems like that might work against the overall quality of this universe and I don't think people are going to be as invested in these characters as they are the ones from the MCU.
I don't think they should have done a JL film, or a DC Cinematic universe at all. Let each film series have it's own identity so you can focus on quality and uniqueness. The Dark Knight trilogy worked well without any references to the rest of the DCU.
04-29-15, 11:08 PM
#6011
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
I dunno. As much as I would have liked seeing Two Face as a villain longer I sort of think for Nolan's universe the way he was used was fine. Realistically he probably wouldn't have been able to last long in his state given how messed up his face was and whatnot. I think for the character to have been a villain in an entire film wouldn't have worked. I maybe would have stuck with Nolan's original idea to have the character introduced first in Batman Begins just because I think showing him and Bruce as friends from a young age would have made what happened to him even more tragic, but I overall feel that the character was built up well enough with his subplot in The Dark Knight that it still worked.
04-29-15, 11:10 PM
#6012
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
It wasn't that big of a deal for me because 1) Rachel wasn't even played by the same actress so, in a way, it felt like a totally new character. 2) Even though I like Maggie Gyllenhaal as an actress I couldn't see why Bruce Wayne was in love with her in TDK, let alone why him and Harvey Dent were fighting over her. Christian Bale and Maggie Gyllenhaal had zero chemistry together in my eyes, so when Bruce Wayne is crying and broken up about it I couldn't care less. I was just waiting for the Joker to appear on screen again.
In TDK, she acts like a total bitch, acting as if she doesn't get that Bruce is actively looking to retire and that he feels that Batman has outlived his use, which is why he sees Harvey Dent as the symbol Batman can never be. Yet Rachel throws that in his face every chance she gets and even her "Dear John" letter has her claiming that Bruce is incapable of giving up being Batman. I get that she prefers Dent and would rather be with him but laying the "blame" on Bruce for her choice is a total bitch move.
04-29-15, 11:14 PM
#6013
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
Yeah I liked Rachel more as a character in Batman Begins as well. I'm probably one of the few who liked Katie Holmes in the part and thought she was better than Maggie Gyllenhaal too.
04-29-15, 11:27 PM
#6014
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
Yeah, I kind of wish Rachel got more screen time in TDK, with Bruce, at least.
Is Arkham Knight going to be a movie, or just a video game?
Is Arkham Knight going to be a movie, or just a video game?
04-29-15, 11:29 PM
#6015
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
04-30-15, 01:23 AM
#6017
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
A good article to get people up to speed. But mostly obvious stuff to those of us who have been paying attention the last 5-6 years (and longer if you were paying attention to the whacked development process surrounding Green Lantern including it's initial aborted Jack Black comedy spin).
To put some of this into perspective people should go over to the comics sub forum and read the thread about Gerry Conways blog post that goes into DC's royalty payment program- and specifically about the ouster of Paul Levitz and the corporate remolding of DC Comics into DC Entertainment.
The corporate behemoth doesn't understand and nurture creatives. This stuff is merely property to exploit to them. Very bottom line orientated (numbers are easy for suits to deal with, whereas creative personalities are a pain in the ass). That why to a suit everything gets reduced to easy to grasp calculations. Dark Knight made a billion $. Dark Knight was dark and gritty. Therefore all people want to see is dark and gritty superhero movies.
It's also why someone with a facile, surface knowledge of the properties and culture (like Synder) can talk the talk enough to sell the suits on a 'vision'- as inappropriate as it may be. The fact is, it's still a leg up on the suits who don't care about this shit at all. That's why they commission 5 different scripts from 5 different writers and then cherry pick the best parts out of each and Frankenstein something together and think it will be good. They don't understand the creative process is organic, not mercantile- which is all they are really versed in.
To put some of this into perspective people should go over to the comics sub forum and read the thread about Gerry Conways blog post that goes into DC's royalty payment program- and specifically about the ouster of Paul Levitz and the corporate remolding of DC Comics into DC Entertainment.
The corporate behemoth doesn't understand and nurture creatives. This stuff is merely property to exploit to them. Very bottom line orientated (numbers are easy for suits to deal with, whereas creative personalities are a pain in the ass). That why to a suit everything gets reduced to easy to grasp calculations. Dark Knight made a billion $. Dark Knight was dark and gritty. Therefore all people want to see is dark and gritty superhero movies.
It's also why someone with a facile, surface knowledge of the properties and culture (like Synder) can talk the talk enough to sell the suits on a 'vision'- as inappropriate as it may be. The fact is, it's still a leg up on the suits who don't care about this shit at all. That's why they commission 5 different scripts from 5 different writers and then cherry pick the best parts out of each and Frankenstein something together and think it will be good. They don't understand the creative process is organic, not mercantile- which is all they are really versed in.
Nolan was a filmmaker they understood and he made them money with his movies, which is why they were so desperate for him to take over the DC universe of films. I believe it was probably for the better he didn't accept, I never got the feeling he understood comic book material that well in his Batman movies.
04-30-15, 03:22 AM
#6018
Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
I didn't like the actress for Rachel in Batman Begins. She looked like a little kid compared to everyone. However, by the time the film was over I actually believed that her character and Christian Bale's character grew up together and had some kind of connection. Again, I can't see her being Bruce Wayne's love interest but at least more so than Maggie's interpretation. I give Maggie Gyllenhaal credit though for bringing something to the TDK. She fit in with all the other actors much better than Katie Holmes.
04-30-15, 05:06 AM
#6019
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
04-30-15, 11:09 AM
#6021
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
Batman looks bored. Like he was stuck at a Wayne Enterprises board meeting and would rather fight crime.
04-30-15, 11:40 AM
#6022
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
Nolan was a filmmaker they understood and he made them money with his movies, which is why they were so desperate for him to take over the DC universe of films. I believe it was probably for the better he didn't accept, I never got the feeling he understood comic book material that well in his Batman movies.
04-30-15, 12:55 PM
#6023
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (D: Snyder; S: Gadot)
Oh and it's nice to see Batman in color. Those flesh tones will be gone completely once Zack Snyder is done desaturating an already black and grey image.
04-30-15, 03:15 PM
#6025
DVD Talk Hero
