kefrank

You guys are doing an admiral job of missing the point. The original comment was that TLJ turned Luke into a "whiny bitch" implying that was somehow entirely out of character for him. My equally pithy response was simply arguing against the notion that the Luke in TLJ was inconsistent with the Luke in the OT. I've spelled out this argument multiple times before, but apparently I need to do it again:

OldBoy

C’mon...at the Cantina, aforementioned farm, he was pretty whiny/silly/bratty throughout...

Josh-da-man

Luke outgrew that by the end of ROTJ. It's character development and a hero's arc.

Josh-da-man

I suspect that the real reason Rey is an InstaJedi is because Disney wanted to do a soft reboot of Star Wars with "Episode VII" and they wanted the new Disney protagonist of the ST to have the same character arc as Luke (and, possibly Anakin, too, but they seem to minimize references to the prequels) and to be a fully functioning Jedi by the end of the movie, too. And that's why Rey goes from being a simple scavenger to Jedi Master in the course of what seem like an afternoon. It also explains the whole "downloaded all of her skills from Ben" cheat.

It is keeping with so much of what Disney is putting out under the Star Wars banner. The Mandalorian is just Boba Fett under a different name. The First Order is just the Empire with a different name. The Resistance is the Rebellion with a different name. The X-Wings have blue highlights and the TIE Fighers are black. The Star Destroyers are little sleeker and streamlined. Snoke is just Palpatine with a different name. Knights of Ren are just Sith Lords under a different name. Second generation iStormtroopers. The Death Star became Starkiller Base. Rey is Luke 2.0 without actually being a Skywalker. Kylo Ren is also Darth Vader 2.0, complete with a mask and black cloak. But he isn't scarred up so he can ship with Rey.

And it also explains why Luke, Han, and Leia had to be presented as failures. They had to fail at everything they accomplished in the OT (ending the Empire, restarting the Jedi, rebuilding the Republic) in order to let the next generation end the First Order, restart the Jedi, and rebuild the Republic.

It's easy to lay the blame on Kathleen Kennedy, J.J. Abrams, and Rian Johnson, but there's just such an obvious pattern at play here, it feels like a corporate mandate. Initially, I wanted Kennedy replaced, but I'm starting to think her hands are tied, and she's just giving Iger and Disney what they want.

tanman

Yes that was a much better explanation of your thoughts but no no one remembers what you wrote awhile back. And no we're not missing the point, those that argue that Luke was always a whiny bitch are entirely wrong. He was only whiny for the first act of the first movie. He grew as a character throughout his hero's journey. Your argument is much more thought out and valid IMHO. From a story point of view I think its okay to make him different since we haven't seen Luke is 30+ years and people change in that long of a time frame. So is it out of character? But it certainly isn't pleasant to see him become who he is in TLJ.

tanman

Apparently that planet isn't Endor.

Just as they did for the premieres of Star Wars: The Force Awakens and Star Wars: The Last Jedi, Star Tours will be adding a new destination from the new Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker film: Kef Bir. This ocean moon was featured in the recently-released trailer for this upcoming film, and though details are scarce at the moment about what exactly Star Tours' visit to this new location will entail,

https://www.themeparktourist.com/new...holiday-season

Mike86

Draven

Josh-da-man

One would assume that the Death Star II wreckage would end up on moon it was orbiting. Gravity tends to work like that. And if not on "the forsest moon of Endor," then it would probably have gotten pulled to the planet Endor which was, I believe, a gas giant. In which case it wouldn't be recoverable. Maybe Endor had an "ocean moon" in addition to a "forest moon." But it seems like a million-to-one longshot for the wreckage to have blasted into space and found another moon orbiting Planet Endor. I can dig that they might have wanted in water, but there's no reason to assume the forest moon of Endor wouldn't have a few large bodies of water.

So, yeah, in this case, it makes perfect sense to re-use Endor.

Of course J.J. Abrams understands jack shit about basic science, so it Kef Bir might be in another part of the galaxy.

TGM

they probably didn't want to use Endor because they didn't want to reintroduce Ewoks.

an explosion goes out in all directions. to have a relatively miniscule piece like that land on some other planet in this fictitious universe is not out of the realm of possibility.

Jay G.

From this fandom wiki, the planet Endor had 9 moons total, one of which was the forest moon.Their citation for this fact is the book Star Wars: Complete Locations
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Endor_(planet)

So Kef Bir could be one of those other moons.

Mike86

Brack

Dr. DVD

I disliked a lot about TLJ but actually felt the Luke stuff made sense for the most part. Let's not forget he didn't receive the kind of training other Jedi did so he wasn't working with the same kind of mindset. Remember when he was fighting Vader in ROTJ he came dangerously close of killing him instead of redeeming him. To me it makes sense that he would continue to have momentary lapses of judgment and briefly consider destroying Kylo Ren out of fear. Remember, he did admit that he was a bit out of his mind. I also felt his end was fitting with the binary sunset and such. His act at the end of TLJ is his self redemption for abandoning all he believed . That said, I hated Canto Bite, Insta Jedi Rey, the sudden need for fuel , Admiral Ackbar's non-eventful death treated as an afterthought, and just about everything else.

I doubt this installment will change anyone's mind, and I intend to try and see it opening day at a matinee at a theater with little to no fanfare.

brayzie

That's what I got as I watch watching the film for the first time. It was very predictable in a commercial, just-give-audiences-what-they're-expecting-way.

The story at times definitely feels like a corporate mandate, but I think TLJ was a little better at doing things a bit differently at times. For example DJ's character explaining to Finn that it's not simply good vs bad.

I noticed this "whiny brat/bitch" label attached to Luke AFTER Anakin was shown to be a whiny crybaby, maybe to justify the prequels.
Luke was a typical older teenager who wanted to hang out with his friends like someone else said. Not really "whiny bitch" material. After his aunt and uncle get murdered he's more serious.
He's not whiny on Dagobah. He just gets frustrated at one point because this loopy, weird muppet creature says he'll lead him to the Jedi Master, but keeps stalling because the little old fart wants company.

That part doesn't make sense though because Vader was threatening his friends, and eventually to turn his sister Leia to the Dark Side. Or possibly give her up to the Emperor to be killed.
Kylo hadn't killed anyone yet. He was just sensed a dark side in him. Seems a little early to contemplate murdering him.

In the context of the TLJ's story I liked the ending for him too.

Mike86

Brack

Mike86

dex14

Brack

dex14

Brack

I won’t whine about it.

coli

Mike86

OldBoy

I just saw new trailer on YouTube app on tv. Twice. Chills each time. This is going to be epic. Having Fisher saying “Always” was such a nice touch. That phrase is engrained in me from that early Arcade machine with the tie fighter like controller. Oh how I loved that game so and would love to play on a console...