Josh-da-man

The movie probably won't explain how Palpatine survived or came back from the dead.

He will probably end up getting a comic book miniseries or novel next year or the year after that explains it.

Mike86

I really wish it would have been Snoke was a reincarnation of Darth Plagueis or something along those lines versus having Palpatine return. That seems like it should have written itself. I think that newest preview as well as some of the others are looking good, and I hope to enjoy the film somewhat.

Overall I’ve got low expectations, which hopefully will work out with me being somewhat pleasantly surprised. Ultimately though I think I’ll always view the sequels as disappointing though.

coli

They put out another great trailer today (trailer #4) as it tugs at the nostalgia strings in a big way (there is a nice scene with C3PO and R2). Again, I will ask for people who weren’t hyped after the October Trailer but have loved the tv spots in the last few days: We’re they saving the best for last as I’m finally hyped!

dex14

Bluelitespecial

I got my ticket for December 23rd. Its a free ticket so I don't mind using it on this movie. I despise The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi, but I'm going to watch it to pay respect for Anthony Daniels, Billy Dee Williams in their final appearances and John Williams as its his last Star Wars score ever.

Paul_SD

In addition to this being a visual delight, I'm expecting Abrams to take some lessons from the most glaring of Return Of The Jedi's failures, and do those elements "right" in this film- while at the same time, falling into some of the same traps Lucas did - and in both cases it'll be due to expediency. In Lucas's case, he just wanted to be done with this entire universe. In Abrams case it's because a lot of the underlying raison d'être was either subverted in the prior film, or simply never well established. Shit like the Emperor and his grand master plan- are going to come out of nowhere with only the thinnest of plot tendrils connecting it to the larger whole.
But, like a lot of Abrams work, it will work well enough in the immediate moment that most fans not only won't mind, they'll probably love it.

There will no doubt be some serious retconning going on, but the reality is that the OT is dead. It's utterly irrelevant to several generations of moviegoers at this point. If plot points here render anything in those films ridiculous (especially in regards to what goes down in RotJ or the PT), then it will just elicit a big shoulder shrug "so what?". Being entertaining- thrilling, exciting, surprising, moving, etc- in the here and now trumps being reverent to a moribund artifact.

That was exactly what RotJ was all about back in the day, and it's exactly what I expect with this wrap up.

coli

I’ll go a step further, SW has been rectoning itself since 1980. As great as ESB is, it contradicts ANH and makes Obiwan a big liar (from a certain POV). ROTJ made Leia the sister, so Star Wars 1977 context is a much different movie.

The PT continued the trend as QuiGon found Anakin, not Obiwan. Padme lost the will to live in childbirth instead of dying while Leia was very young. Little things like Anakin building C3PO, Boba Fett’s dad is the Clone to all the Clone Troopers just made the universe smaller.

The ST continued by resetting the galactic civil war and undid everything Han, Luke and Leia did. There is no doubt in my mind TROS will throw ROTJ under the bus in terms of The Emperor and The Chosen One and we will look at that differently.

I used to get mad at all the rectoning but once you accept that type of storytelling, you can enjoy the movies for what they are.

story

I'm surprised we don't know the opening crawl yet. Didn't we get them early for both TFA and TLJ?

Dr. DVD

I could care less at this point. I'll see them Friday afternoon.

Paul_SD

You'll have to help me out, as I'm drawing a blank on where ESB contradicted anything in SW.
I no longer hold ESB in as high esteem as I used to, but that is mostly because of how the subsequent films handled the ideas ESB first broached. In particular, just about everything with Yoda and the horseshit Jedi philosophy he hammers away at.

As a thirteen year old, I applauded how deep and spiritual it all seemed. Now I see it's all just a bunch of empty, new-agey bullshit. In the very next film, Luke can force choke and slaughter underlings as much as he wants- but to slay the biggest mass murdering underling in the galaxy to assist a nobler cause? Not if he's blood related he can't.
Then the prequels take it to even more ridiculous extremes by making the Jedi sexless, ascetic warrior monks. *gag*

RotJ had enormous opportunity to push back at some of that nonsense. Ben & Yoda not being straight up with Luke all along provides a ready made huge source of honest earned conflict to explore.
It ties into questions Luke would naturally have about his true identity and destiny (nature vs nurture). If he is from a bad seed, maybe his destiny is to rule- but not by Vader's side, but rather in his place. Vader would be an obstacle to his ascension. OTOH, if he is good, then Vader and the Emperor need to be destroyed- whatever the cost. Even if that cost is Luke's "purity". He can exile himself afterward if he's no longer good enough to be around normal people- but first things first.
Instead the film posits that Luke remaining uncorrupted is the highest achievement he can make. Even if the rebellion (from his limited vantage point on the DS) looks to be routed and on the verge of defeat- it's all important that he doesn't sacrifice the principles that his two teachers, who easily played fast and loose with the truth all along, drummed into him.

There's no way of getting around it. The Jedi are simply ineffectual self-centered assholes. RotJ revealed this and subsequent films have only further embellished it.
And "the Skywalkers" are the biggest a-holes of all. Do they really need to rise any farther?

story

rennervision

I don't get what you're saying. Yoda and Obi-Wan never told Luke he couldn't kill his father. They told him the exact opposite - he must face him again. The whole issue with Luke fighting him in ESB was he wasn't fully trained and ready. You must face a trial before becoming a Jedi and, in ROTJ, confronting Vader was supposed to be that trial.

Paul_SD

Some movies just get better and better with age.

Did not appreciate that one at all when I first saw it. Amazing how your reaction to something can change over time, as the thing itself remains exactly the same.

Josh-da-man

I do sort of agree with Paul SD in regards to the Jedi. The more we see of them, the more the Jedi way is explained, and the more we see of the Force, it just gets cornier and cornier.

The Jedi are kind of silly when you think about it; they present themselves as these monastic pacifists, but their weapon of choice is designed to easily dismember opponents.

The Force works fine when it's kept vague, but with each subsequent movie, it gets stronger and stronger. It started out as a energy field that binds the living beings of the galaxy together. Then, by the time the prequels came out, it's spitting out prophecies. And in the sequel trilogy, it's basically handing out random super-powers, letting people communicate face-to-face from across the galaxy, and picking avatars.

It's a problem that infects most genre entertainment. In Star Trek, notice how the "Vulcan Mind Meld" becomes stronger and more powerful as time goes on.

coli

"No, I am your father!"

rennervision

DaveyJoe

I actually prefer Palpatine's portrayal in the prequels. ROTJ is kind of a dud for me but Ian McDiarmid's performance is probably my favorite part of the PT. He's the only actor that seems to fit in with the tone of those movies.

The Jedi and the Force should go by the wayside. The lightsabers were influenced by Kurosawa's Samurai flicks but the Jedi code is totally incongruent with its inspiration. Now a series featuring Jedi as an extremely skilled warrior class that serves a master or kills for money would be more interesting in the gritty sort of world Star Wars is set in.

Nobody can seem to agree on the Force and who should have powers and who shouldn't. Either someone is kicking too much ass(Rey) or not enough (Luke). Would the series be better without such a lazy get out of jail card?

Rogue One had so much opportunity because it tried to move away from the crutches the other films rely on, but all the tinkering left it as a mess of a film.

Paul_SD

I never said they explicitly said that. The film's dramatics stack the deck in terms of making that the only option because of the cheesy, reactive way Luke is portrayed.
Far from coming across as a boss, he's basically just a child, lashing out at Vader like a child would at every taunt.
Fight, fight, fight
"I won't fight you, father!"
"Oh yeah? How bout if I molest your sister?"
Then fight, fight, fight some more
until the even more obvious, childish taunting from Palpatine wades in, and suddenly Luke's superego takes over.

I get why six and seven year olds would have fallen in love with this, because this kind of on-the-nose, id spun, back and forth is absolutely at their unconscious level.
If, OTOH, Palpatine were written as a character that really could dominate an empire ruling over hundreds of star systems, I think he might have employed a little more sophisticated psychological trickery to get Luke on board.
Instead, despite Luke surrendering himself to them, Palp's game is always at the same mustache-twirling pitch. "Look at me. I'm so eeeeeevil!"
Making Palpatine a little more devious and his attempts to turn Luke a little less obvious would not have imperiled this from still being breezy Saturday matinee fodder. It would have just made it higher caliber SMF.

For that matter, what would have actually been the net difference in the cathartic satisfactions of this film if Luke had completely executed Vader, and then turned his attention on Palpatine and we saw a duel between those two that got resolved when Luke, who during the midst of battle has an epiphany, and moves from hateful rage to a calmed, pragmatic defense that then steadily rises to offense, and finally vanquishment?
Would audiences have really been upset and emptier for not seeing a happy ending for Vader? Seriously?

Dead on.

I don't see that as a contradiction at all. It only becomes a contradiction if the subsequent explanation for it is lacking (which it was). ESB set up a few juicy conflicts that were ready to be tackled and then just dismissed them each with one or two lines of dialogue in turn if not outright just ignoring they ever existed at all.

• The love triangle between Han, Leia and Luke. Sure, most people could see Han and Leia had more chemistry together, but that just makes Luke's mental state that much more dicey going into the final conflict.
• Reconciling the respect and affection Luke feels for Ben and Yoda with the fact they've been deceiving him all this time. What else have they not been telling him? Are they trying to manipulate him just like Vader?
• Vader vs Luke. Is he really his father or is he just successfully manipulating him? If he is, then DV is still no father. He was a sperm donor who oversaw the slaughtering of the people who really raised him. Luke has no more familial attachment to him than he would have to one of Jabba's goons. He is, however, a threat to everything Luke currently holds dear. Whatever happened to "you made your choice, now you have to live with it"? Vader chose his life. Luke trying to neutralize that life in the service of the rebellion is a higher purpose thing.
• Vader vs the Emperor. For one thing, Vader failed the Emperor by not delivering Luke. Shouldn't we expect to see some recrimination there like the way Vader treats his subordinates who fuck up?
Also, like the idea of Vader being Luke's father, this was an idea broached in ESB that could have subsequently been revealed to be either truth or purposeful deception. Having this actually be part of Vader's end goal would have further put those two ( V & E) in conflict and in a test of strategies the entire last film.
• Han vs Lando. A minor conflict but one that was built in and resolved offscreen in Jedi. The last thing Han knew about Lando was that he betrayed all of them. That question of Lando's ulterior motives would have been overarching their every interaction. What if Lando isn't just betraying their small group anymore, but re-gaining trust to deliver the entire rebellion into the Empire's hands?
• Luke vs himself. Can he trust himself to do the right thing, no matter the cost, when the time comes? He's come up very short handed in his sole interaction with Vader- is it because he's actually not good and is fighting against his true, authentic nature? Was that the lesson of the tree on Dagobah? Does he really want to even be a Jedi anymore if the Jedi are just as deceitful and manipulative as the bad guys?

Just a few of the questions a better movie would have easily seen to ask.

And to steer this back on topic- I won't be surprised if Abrams uses ROS to try to make amends for some of those lapses by looking to resolve the conflicts there in a more sophisticated way that would befit the culmination of an epic trilogy.

dex14

If this interview is real and accurately transcribed... J.J. seems to hint that a fan-favorite animated character could appear:
https://soranews24.com/2019/12/14/j-...-of-skywalker/

I would watch a Disney+ live-action show on this character in a heartbeat.

OldBoy

Special Jimmy Kimmel with entire cast tonight.

Artman

Friendly reminder to steer clear of comment sections, screenshots are out now and on Reddit. Time to go dark....

joe_b

^ Even little details from those photo (a gift for Rey and a certain weapon) just confirm the summary that was leaked a few months ago was correct. Which means unless it plays better than it reads, this movie will be a mess. Oh, well.

IDrinkMolson

If you have Disney+ -

After Wednesday’s episode of The Mandalorian, get an exclusive look at Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (in theaters Dec. 20!)

Tom Banjo

But the way he describes it is more like a “blink and you’ll miss it” background easter egg, rather than a major role. Besides, pretty sure Filoni has eventual plans regarding that character in whatever animated or live-action show follows up on the unanswered aspects of the Rebels finale.

milo bloom

Impressions from the premier are generally positive. The negatives seem to be from the die hard TLJ lovers but overall most are saying it’s the ultimate Star Wars movie if not quite the best one.

I'm preparing myself for a good movie, but not the best. It can only go up from there.